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dh1200s  
#191 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2013 8:03:37 AM(UTC)
dh1200s

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Hang in there I feel you are real close.

Did you remove what I call the old Tub Sleeve that has to be worked off the Spinner Support shaft prior to installing the new Tub Seal?

See the pics at the front end of this thread I show how to pry off that old sleeve. Those pic's start at 02-01-2011, 09:57 AM post.

What is the the Lower Outer Tub bearing Mfg. & p/n that was supplied with your kit?

Did you place the new Lower Outer Tub bearing assembly on the shaft of the Spinner Support to check for proper rotation lock up with CW rotation and and free wheel rotation CCW the Spin direction?

All reference to rotation is from looking down through the wash basket with the lid open. Wish I could better explain but some folks get mixed up with the Clutch Pulley rotation for wash/agitate CW rotation and Spin CCW rotation including me.

I have only rebuilt my series 10 machine which uses the plain vanilla 6207-2RS Outer Tub bearings.

Folks that have what I call the 2nd generation Outer Tub design have been using the CSK207 bearing for the Lower Out tub bearing with success from the last few post in this Outer Tub rebuild.

Just to give you feel for my extremely noisy (freight train) spin cycle operation of my Series 18 FAV6800A machine. I can hand spin up my wash basket (CCW) as fast as I can and it will coast down to a gentle stop with several plus revolutions.

So we need to troubleshoot the increased CCW rotational resistance after reassembly.

I'll try to help and thank you for all the detail in your post. All to often it's a challenge for me to squeeze out that kind of feedback when using a 3000 mile long screw driver.............Dick
berrytc  
#192 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2013 11:38:57 AM(UTC)
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[I][I][I][I][I]
Originally Posted by: dh1200s Go to Quoted Post
Hang in there I feel you are real close.

Did you remove what I call the old Tub Sleeve that has to be worked off the Spinner Support shaft prior to installing the new Tub Seal?

[COLOR="Blue"]The new tub seal I received has no "inner" sleeve (it is identical to the old seal I took out). My spinner support shaft had a "tub sleeve" on it when I took it apart, but if I remove it, the seal will have no surface against which it can seal, as the outer surface of the existing "tub sleeve" is a "slip fit" into the seal. The sleeve does bottom out in the seal, however, against a lip around the inner diameter of the seal.[/COLOR]


See the pics at the front end of this thread I show how to pry off that old sleeve. Those pic's start at 02-01-2011, 09:57 AM post.

What is the the Lower Outer Tub bearing Mfg. & p/n that was supplied with your kit?

[COLOR="Blue"]The bearing number is 6207 RSC3 and says "China" on it, but no mfg. name. This is true for both the upper and lower bearings, as they are identical.[/COLOR]


Did you place the new Lower Outer Tub bearing assembly on the shaft of the Spinner Support to check for proper rotation lock up with CW rotation and and free wheel rotation CCW the Spin direction?

[COLOR="Blue"]The bearing I received spins both ways equally. There is no "rotation lock up".[/COLOR]


All reference to rotation is from looking down through the wash basket with the lid open. Wish I could better explain but some folks get mixed up with the Clutch Pulley rotation for wash/agitate CW rotation and Spin CCW rotation including me.

I have only rebuilt my series 10 machine which uses the plain vanilla 6207-2RS Outer Tub bearings.

Folks that have what I call the 2nd generation Outer Tub design have been using the CSK207 bearing for the Lower Out tub bearing with success from the last few post in this Outer Tub rebuild.

[COLOR="Blue"]As I said in my initial post, the lower tub bearing was a "double" style bearing which may have been directional, but as it was destroyed, I could not tell for sure. The replacement bearing that was supplied in the "kit" was a "single" bearing, and was not as thick as the original bearing (it is the same exact bearing supplied for the upper tub bearing). Again, I don't believe that either of the bearings supplied in the kit are "directional".[/COLOR]


I am going to try to post a photo of the spinner support shaft for clarification of the seal sleeve issue.
berrytc  
#193 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2013 12:03:56 PM(UTC)
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Here is a photo of the spinner support shaft as it was after disassembly of the washer, showing the "seal sleeve". The seal sleeve is on there pretty good; I think it would probably take a hammer and pry bar to get it off. More importantly, if I remove this sleeve, there is no surface left for the seal to make a seal with, as the new seal does not have this sleeve, either with it or incorporated into it.
berrytc attached the following image(s):
Neptune TL Spinner Support Shaft (Medium).jpg (23kb) downloaded 95 time(s).

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dh1200s  
#194 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2013 2:58:18 PM(UTC)
dh1200s

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From what I see you have your old Tub Seal Sleeve and the new one on the Spinner Support shaft.

Attached is a pic of a brand new Spinner Support I picked up for $40..........could not walk away from it for the price. Came in original factory box. The Tub Seal Sleeve is removed...........see the factory drilled weep holes in the Spinner Support.......where are your weep holes in the base of the Spinner Support shaft?

Did you check out the warning I gave about the Sleeve that remains on the Spinner Support after tear down? See this post dated in this thread....02-01-2011, 09:57 AM

I would have you check out other pics at this time stamp of the thread

From here it looks like you never removed the old Tub Seal Sleeve and now the tub seal sleeve from the new one is on the Spinner Shaft also..........but I could be wrong darn trifocals are a PITA. Pop of those sleeves and show me your weep holes in the Spinner Support base as I show.........one and only one sleeve per tub seal install.

Can you take a pic showing me the weep holes on you spinner support shaft...........your spinner support looks to be cleaned up real well.

You are going to have a problem with a non One-Way bearing 6207 RSC3 installed in the Lower Outer Tub........ No problem for the Upper Outer Tub bearing location. The wash basket will slow rotate CW direction in wash/agitate CW Clutch Pulley Rotation.........Others have tried and start throwing DC/UC unbalance errors.

I have a post where I describe the function of the One-Way bearings used in these machines.

In the 1st gen Outer tub the Upper One-Way bearing ring serves the function of preventing CW rotation of the wash basket in wash/agitate mode.

So I see two issues with your rebuild you appear to have to Tub Sleeves stacked on top of one another. And you need to install dual function bearing like the CSK 207 for the lower outer tub bearing.

Common 2nd generation owners that rebuilt your machines using the CSK 207 one-way bearing please chime in and help this forum member.

I have to rebuild my Series 18 and 16 machines so I can get first hand experience rebuilding the Outer Tub 2nd generation Outer Tub with the CSK 207 One-Way bearing...........Dick
dh1200s attached the following image(s):
Spinner Support weep holes.jpg (39kb) downloaded 94 time(s).

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berrytc  
#195 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2013 3:53:34 PM(UTC)
berrytc

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From what I see you have your old Tub Seal Sleeve and the new one on the Spinner Support shaft.

[COLOR="Blue"]That's what I thought also, but this is the way it was when I took it apart. The new seal did not come with a new sleeve, nor was one incorporated into the new seal. I am attaching a photo of the two seals. In the first photo, the old one is on the left and the new one is on the right, top up. In the second photo, the old one is on the left and the new one is on the right, bottom up. Placed together, they are identical. How the shaft could have had two sleeves on it is beyond me, because that's the way it was when I disassembled it. My concern with removing them is that then the new seal would have no sleeve to run on. I suppose I could try to remove only the top one, but I don't know how successful I will be in doing to, or if it will solve the problem. You can see the dilemma here.....[/COLOR]


Attached is a pic of a brand new Spinner Support I picked up for $40..........could not walk away from it for the price. Came in original factory box. The Tub Seal Sleeve is removed...........see the factory drilled weep holes in the Spinner Support.......where are your weep holes in the base of the Spinner Support shaft?

[COLOR="Blue"]If the weep holes on my support are there, they are hidden by the sleeve, because I cannot see them.[/COLOR]


Did you check out the warning I gave about the Sleeve that remains on the Spinner Support after tear down? See this post dated in this thread....02-01-2011, 09:57 AM

[COLOR="Blue"]Yes, I read your warning and understood, and I agree that it appears that my shaft has two sleeves on it. How that happened, or how the machine was running with both of them on there is beyond me, but I really don't care, I just want to know what to do to get this thing back together correctly so my wife will quit giving me that "look" (you know....."the look?").[/COLOR]


I would have you check out other pics at this time stamp of the thread

From here it looks like you never removed the old Tub Seal Sleeve and now the tub seal sleeve from the new one is on the Spinner Shaft also..........but I could be wrong darn trifocals are a PITA. Pop of those sleeves and show me your weep holes in the Spinner Support base as I show.........one and only one sleeve per tub seal install.

[COLOR="Blue"]I understand. My concern is that in trying to remove the top sleeve, I damage the lower sleeve, the seal won't work correctly, and I don't know where to get a new sleeve.[/COLOR]


Can you take a pic showing me the weep holes on you spinner support shaft...........your spinner support looks to be cleaned up real well.

You are going to have a problem with a non One-Way bearing 6207 RSC3 installed in the Lower Outer Tub........ No problem for the Upper Outer Tub bearing location. The wash basket will slow rotate CW direction in wash/agitate CW Clutch Pulley Rotation.........Others have tried and start throwing DC/UC unbalance errors.

I have a post where I describe the function of the One-Way bearings used in these machines.

In the 1st gen Outer tub the Upper One-Way bearing ring serves the function of preventing CW rotation of the wash basket in wash/agitate mode.

So I see two issues with your rebuild you appear to have to Tub Sleeves stacked on top of one another. And you need to install dual function bearing like the CSK 207 for the lower outer tub bearing.

Common 2nd generation owners that rebuilt your machines using the CSK 207 one-way bearing please chime in and help this forum member.

[COLOR="Blue"]I don't have a problem with buying the correct bearing. Where can I obtain the CSK 207 bearing?[/COLOR]


Read more: http://forum.appliancepartspros...nt-20.html#ixzz2cB44STQt
http://forum.appliancepartspros.com

Thanks for your help and your patience. I'll keep you informed of my progress or lack thereof. Any other ideas will be appreciated.
berrytc attached the following image(s):
Spinner shaft seals - top (Medium).jpg (70kb) downloaded 93 time(s).
Spinner shaft seals - bottom (Medium).jpg (64kb) downloaded 93 time(s).

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dh1200s  
#196 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2013 4:40:33 PM(UTC)
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""I understand. My concern is that in trying to remove the top sleeve, I damage the lower sleeve, the seal won't work correctly, and I don't know where to get a new sleeve.""

See if you can work them off with a couple thin blade screw drivers. Take your time they should work off the spinner support with out damage.

You own the machine and no one else has worked on it.....is that correct?

If so I feel this is what happened. On tear down you removed the old Tub Seal and the original sleeve stayed in the Spinner Support shaft..... they always do....... they have a good friction fit. I see no way the Spinner Support had two sleeves installed from the factory. Could you have done a dry fit of the new Tub Seal on the Spinner Support shaft then removed the Tub Seal? That is what I feel happened......you more than likely never noticed the sleeve in the new Tub Seal.

No matter remove both sleeves carefully and reuse the upper sleeve with your new Tub Seal.

""I don't have a problem with buying the correct bearing. Where can I obtain the CSK 207 bearing?""

I was hoping previous forum members would chime in that used this bearing I have not rebuilt my Outer Tubs on my two 2nd generation machines only the Series 10 machine.

If you read previous post from forum member FERRIS he used the CSK207 bearing. Here is a link to the One Way Bearing that forum member Ferris used maybe he will chime in for comments.......FERRIS are you out there?

He rebuilt his 2nd gen outer tub as you have with success using this as his replacement Lower Outer Tub bearing.

35x72x17,CSK207(X),Metric, One Way Bearings

Just curious what is the condition of your Clutch Pulley?

I'm on vacation this week and leaving for the shore tomorrow so I may not be around to respond. Going to take my laptop but may be disconnected from the internet for a few days............Dick

Here is a link that describes the One-WayCSK207-PP Bearings - One Way - Sprag - Standard

You have to make sure when you press/drive this bearing in the hub of the outer tub that it allows proper CCW rotation i.e. Clutch Pulley spin cycle rotation and locks the Spinner Support from turning CW for Clutch Pulley CW rotation the wash/agitate cycle...............is that correct forum members that have installed this type of bearing in your 2 generation outer tubs?

Cutaway pic of the type of Lower One-Way Outer Tub bearing we are discussing;
Dick
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One0-Way bearing cut away view.png (29kb) downloaded 89 time(s).

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berrytc  
#197 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2013 6:41:28 PM(UTC)
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I have never worked on this machine, except to clean out the softener dispenser. The local washing machine repairman has worked on the machine, however, so who knows? Regardless, I bit the bullet and removed both sleeves without incident. See the attached photo of the shaft (with weep holes) and the photo of the two sleeves. The second sleeve (on the left in photo) came off very easily, retaining the rubber inside the sleeve and seems to be undamaged. I am setting this one aside for re-assembly. The rubber on the first sleeve (on the right in photo) was stuck to the bottom of the shaft and separated from the sleeve, so I just carefully removed it and tried to clean up the surface as good as possible. There is some pitting in that area, however, but not too deep. I dressed it with emery cloth and it seems smooth.

I ordered a CSK 207 bearing and will get back to installing things when it arrives. As you suggest, I will be sure to verify that the upper bearing allows proper CCW rotation, i.e. Clutch Pulley spin cycle rotation and locks the Spinner Support from turning CW for Clutch Pulley CW rotation during the wash/agitate cycle.

The clutch pulley seems fine, as is the rest of the clutch. There was some black grease on the top of it, but I am assuming that came from the lower failed drum bearing, as this same grease was also in other spots.

With things torn down this far, I am checking everything else carefully and will replace anything that looks at all questionable. I don't want to be doing this again. I will let you know how things turn out. Again, thanks for the help, and have a great time at the shore.
berrytc attached the following image(s):
Shaft wo sleeve (Medium).jpg (23kb) downloaded 91 time(s).
Sleeves Bottom (Medium).jpg (56kb) downloaded 92 time(s).

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berrytc  
#198 Posted : Tuesday, August 27, 2013 5:42:48 PM(UTC)
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Dick

Upon receiving the correct "one-way" lower bearing (CSK 207) I ordered, I reassembled the machine and it has just completed its first wash/spin cycle without incident. More importantly, it no longer sounds like a freight train is coming though my house. I did have to use four shims (got them at my local bearing supply) in the spindle shaft/drum bearing assembly to get the bearings in the correct position (the replacement bearing was not as thick as the original), but it seems to work fine. After having done this repair, I believe I could easily do it again in an hour or two, and with far less disassembly than I did (unless one just wanted to clean up the machine a little more). It appears that simply removing the drum assembly from the cabinet, removing the motor and clutch assembly, and removing the spindle nut will allow you to take the inner drum out in one piece and replace both of the outer drum bearings without taking anything else apart. I wish I had taken more photos, but I was trying to get the machine back together before my wife got home! Thanks again for your assistance and for helping me save over $1,000 to repair this "irrepairable" machine!
dh1200s  
#199 Posted : Tuesday, August 27, 2013 9:20:18 PM(UTC)
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Great work!

You are now an expert on the rebuild please jump in for support if you see others that decide to DIY this rebuild and have issues.

You can make the machine go way beyond normal service life. Watch for machines that are being tossed for spare parts.

My Series 18 machine which was a $0.99 bid win is ready for bearings.....it's in freight train mode........having a difficult time hearing the TV when it spins up.

I'll start a outer tub rebuild on that machine this winter.....I have a series 10 machine I will bring up out of the basement soon.

I have other post on this forum for issues that may pop up down the road......you will handle with ease.

In the search box above type in dh1200s and a series of post will pop up.

Good luck with the machine it was good working with you...........Dick
copiercop  
#200 Posted : Thursday, September 19, 2013 4:15:54 PM(UTC)
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Hi Dick,

I am new to the forum and have been following this thread closely for about a month. I finally got the courage to do the Outer Tub Bearing replacement. Everthing has been going smoothly so far.

Spinners are out, transmission as well. I even got the spinner plate bolts out without pulling my groin!

I just can't seem to pull the spinner plate out! I've had it soaking in PB Blaster for a day....any suggestions?

Thanks in advance.......

Johnny
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