Thank you for the link to the tub rebuild. I think I will go through this entire process next month. Today I “rebuilt” the drive clutch and the machine is on it’s 3rd load already without any hic-ups. After reviewing your link above, I also saw the rust lines from the weep holes and suspect a tub seal that is worn or heat hardened from use. I want to do the re-seal job prior to any bearing damage. Currently the machine is quiet and now that the drive clutch is operating properly, I am getting top spin RPM again. Oddly most folks are reporting some type of service problem in the 4 to 6 year time zone. My washer just had it’s 6th birthday. I will definity be in contact next month for part numbers and latest information you may have run across for repairing these units. Thanks again for the great service advise you provide. Dave
Dick - Do you have any information I can read or preview prior to the washer tub teardown? Are you folks able to get on line and print or “see” a repair manual for this unit? Thanks - Dave
For the Service Manual I won’t post direct links but Google the SM document number 16022808 Revision 0 December 2003 and you will find. There is a DIY site you can join to get the SM but that is not necessary.
Did your Clutch Pulley use the Upper Bearing ring?
For Tub Seal replacement see this post [COLOR=#333333][COLOR=purple]FAV6800A/FAV9800A Outer Tub bearing replacement[/COLOR][/COLOR]
Hello Dick - This is the first washer I have ever worked on. I think the clutch in my series unit only has the one bearing and the sprag unit. both look like bearings, put the piece in the white housing acts just like an automatic transmission sprag in a car trans. I will read the other posts you provided. Thanks for the support - Dave
[COLOR=#333333]Just a couple of thoughts and I’ll stop chewing up server hard disk clusters; [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]My FAV6800A a Series 16 started with the dry One-Way Roller Clutches and the well known DC/UC unbalance errors at the 3.5 yr mark of service life. I don’t remember cycle count but I believe around 1800 wash cycles. You can check your count in Service Mode see the SM for details.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]If you have no bearing noise and you can rotate the wash basket by hand CCW as fast as you can and have it coast down several revolutions to a gentle stop then I would feel you are good to go. The gents I worked with in the thread [COLOR=#800080]FAV6800A/FAV9800A Outer Tub bearing replacement[/COLOR] felt that it was best to replace the Outer Tub bearings and Spinner Support bearings. It’s an individual owner call during tear down. Everyone’s situation is different. All parts are called out in the [COLOR=#800080]FAV6800A/FAV9800A Outer Tub bearing replacement[/COLOR] thread.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]Down the road if you decide to punch out the Outer Tub bearings and if your Series 16 machine does not use the Upper One-Way bearing ring your Outer Tub bearing rebuild will require a few additional steps. I don’t know what Maytag was thinking when they moved the functionality of that upper Bearing ring to the integrated Lower Outer Tub Bearing. Try to find that bearing assembly anywhere on the face of the planet. [/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]On other forums most repair folks recommend a complete Outer Tub replacement a $400+. What sense does that make when a pair of 6207-2RS bearings can be had for under $20 delivered to the house. Some owners have had extended warranty repairs for the issue by service companies replacing the whole Outer Tub for Clutch issues??? I guess when cost is no object that is the way to go.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Another possibility to get a replacement set of Outer Tub bearings is to do what this forum member did…… Quote from this thread [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]Maytag Neptune load unbalance[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]. Perma link #53 “”[/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]I called Maytag, asked them to send a replacement as I was going to fix it myself. It arrived today w/ bearings and tub seal pre-installed. I tore down the machine and reassembled w/ the new tub. However, the bottom of the new tub that accepts to the flanges on the clutch was redesigned and the clutch didn’t set right. Fortuneately, I had purchased bearings, tub seal and tranny seal just in case the new tub didn’t work. I ended up rebuilding the old tub. So far so good.””[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman]I feel this forum member just needed discard his original Upper Bearing ring and he would have been good to go with his free replacement Outer Tub. Again that Upper Bearing ring One-Way roller clutches bearing functionality was moved/integrated into the Lower Outer Tub bearing assembly in the new (downgrade….:)) Maytag Outer Tub redesign. [/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[COLOR=#333333]Good Luck with you project and if I or anyone can help just shout out…………Dick [/COLOR]
Dick- Is it your opinion that the little bit of seal speepage I am seeing is normal wear and tear? I gather from your last post that the clutch is all that needed servicing at the moment. The tub and bearings currently coast to a stop like a new machine would. I am unsure if I need to replace the tub seal at this point to protect the bearings from water intrusion. I don’t mind doing the work, but at the same time am not interested in performing unneeded repairs. I guess the best path forward is to run the machine and see if any water drips down into the clutch housing. Your thoughts? Dave
[COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]“”Dick- Is it your opinion that the little bit of seal speepage I am seeing is normal wear and tear?””[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]Dave how bad was the rust on the One-Way roller clutches bearing? How much rust on what I call the Spinner Shaft Coupler?[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]If there was just a slight hint of rust you may be good for a while. I assume you basically did what I call Clutch Maintenance to get back in service is that correct? If so check in 4 months and see if you have signs of a Tub Seal leak with Clutch Pulley inspection. I would like to know the cycle count on your machine. You can check that in Service Mode. [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]The Tub Seal design in these machines to me seems to be weak in design but I over design in all my projects. Ill attach some pics of my Series 10 machine Outer Tub rebuild Clutch Pulley clean up. It was a local purchase as my Series 17 machine. You will see that there was a slight amount of rust and the machine was suffering from DC/UC unbalance errors. Clutch maintenance got it back in service. The Outer Tub rebuild was just for my enjoyment (yea right) and to gain experience. The Cycle count was 2996 on this $40 machine so it had some use but the bearings were in good shape with slight indication of moisture to the Clutch assembly.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]I own a series 16 and 17 like yours that has the redesigned Outer Tub that does not use the Upper Bearing ring. A bearing replacement on FAV6800A and FAV9800A of that Outer Tub design use an integrated bearing assembly for the Lower Outer Tub bearing and a standard 6207-2RS type for the upper Outer Tub bearing. [/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]The work around is to use standard 6207-2RS bearings for the upper and the lower Outer Tub bearing. The Lower Outer Tub bearing needs shims to be added to make up for bearing thickness so that the Spinner Support nut can be properly torqued down on reassembly.[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I have only changed out Outer Tub bearings on my 3rd FAV6800A Series 10 machine but have helped from a distance like in this thread [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333]Where are the bearings?[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000][FONT=Calibri]It is difficult for me at times supporting owners without pics. This forum member has the same set up as you (and me for my Series 16 and 17 machines) the new designed Outer Tub that uses the integrated Lower Outer Tub bearing assembly which is a split bearing assembly. That bearing assembly is part standard Ball Bearing such as a 6207-2RS type and the other section contains a One-Way roller clutch bearing assembly as see in the pics in this thread. I’m not sure what Maytag R&D had in mind with their decision of the Outer Tub bearing redesign. Just try to find that bearing assembly…..maybe somewhere in China. [/FONT][/COLOR][/SIZE]
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]Anyway your Outer Tub can be rebuilt using standard 6207-2RS bearings down the road if you decide to keep your machine. I would rebuild the outer tub in a heartbeat. $1K machine original investment and rebuild of the Outer tub for around $50 or less in parts…..no brainer for me but it’s an owner call. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
Dick- I was able to locate the S/M on the web, thanks! I will read how to retrieve the cycle count and report back to you. Your pics were so close to what my washer parts looked like, I thought they were mine for a second. The only difference was the black housing on my unit had less “powder” (debris) compared to your pic. There was no rust on either drive shaft and no water marks on the washer base plate. The black housing did have enough water in it to dampen one sheet of a paper towel as a point of reference. I agree with your thoughts on a total unit rebuild, I can overhaul the entire unit for less than half the cost of a new washer and then I know what I have as far as service life goes. I am curious about the bearing shims, do you make them or buy them (and where)? How much clearance must be taken up on a retrofit bearing pack install? Thanks, Dave
Dick- I read the provided link and see one fellow used door knob shims. I will go to Lowes tomorrow and get the diameter and thickness of one of these door knob pieces and see if i can find something from the automotive field that would be a cleaner and easier find, like say some transmission or rear axle shim packs. I do admire the above fellow’s resoursefulness. Dave
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]Sounds like you have a slight Tub Seal leak. If you go forward with the rebuild and come up with shims that do the trick please let me and other owners know. If you have or can borrow a set of digital calipers I would like to know the thickness of the dual Outer tub bearing.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I would become familiar with the thread [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#800080]FAV6800A/FAV9800A Outer Tub bearing replacement[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]. You can get the Tub Seal and Tranny O-Ring thru this site. Find the best price for the 6207-2RS bearings. If you think you may want to replace the Spinner Support bearings I will look for a link for the INA SCE-910 if you decide to replace it and the 6002DU in the Spinner Support.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I feel you have some time but I would do a complete bearing replacement if you go forward with the Tub Seal/Trany O-Ring replacement . The bearings are cheap it’s the down time and baring no issues pop up like I had where I snapped of a spinner support bolt that was severely corroded in as I described in the thread [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#800080]FAV6800A/FAV9800A Outer Tub bearing replacement[/COLOR].[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[COLOR=#333333][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]My everyday Series 17 machine was on line while I rebuilt the Series 10. But as you can see from the Outer Tub bearing replacement thread those folks made it thru the fix. [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]I would post in this thread [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080]FAV6800A/FAV9800A Outer Tub bearing replacement[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri] for support or feedback that you have. [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]Good luck and I’ll be around if I can help……….Dick[/COLOR]
Dick - Thanks agian for all the help and support. When I break the unit down for seal / brg service, I will get you the bearing stack height of the late style bearing pack. I read the posts on bearing replacement that you provided. Those helped a lot. I will post / add to those posts as I go through the tub rebuild. By that time, I should have the bearing shim situation finalized. Dave
I just wanted to say thanks. I followed the instructions in this thread and was able to repair my machine pretty easily. I ended up having to replace the whole clutch pulley- it was rusted solid, which probably means I’m going to be replacing the seal next- but a $90 piece beats a $300 repair call or a $1000 machine any day.
Congrats on your clutch repair. If you got through that, you can replace the tub seals with about the same level of difficulty. I think you may find the bearings have already suffered some water damage at this point, and may need replacement. I “rebuilt” my clutch and 4 months later the machine started setting a trouble code for low shaft RPM. The seals were leaking and the inner bearings that Dick shows in his tub overhaul thread were water damaged and preventing the spin/aggiate cycles from reaching the desired shaft RPM the control module was looking for. Dick’s thread is so thorough that I can only add one line to it at this point. My observation after completing the entire bearing replacement and tub overhaul is the six bolts that Dick speaks of in his thread can indeed be a bear to remove. I would like to expand on his information at this point and state that not only would I soak the 6 bolts with PB Blaster, but I found that rocking the bolts out until they stop turning or “bind-up”, stop !, spray the area again, and then turn the bolts back down into the housing until they stop. Repeating this process seems to draw the PB Blaster deep into the threads and helps to release the corrosion without bolt breakage. With some luck and a lot of patience, I was able to get all 6 corroded bolts out of the housing without breakage. The only other trick I learned during reassembly of my unit, which would help you during dissassembly of your unit is this: There is a place to put a 3/8’s inch extension through the outer tub and into the inner tub to lock the 2 units together. My trick is to use 2 - 3/8’s extensions, one in each of the opposing holes and load/ hold the extensions together with a sweatband or a large rubber band to keep the extensions from falling out as you move the assembely about during tear-down. This allows you to remove or tighten the large base nut without a fight.
Dave
I forgot to mention the total cost of 1- tub seal, 1-transmission O-ring and 4 bearings was only $60.00. Also, as others have mentioned, you will spend more time on mold and corrsion clean up, than on the actual tub overhaul. Sorry to report that little piece of news !
Dave
[quote=DB App.;635514]I forgot to mention the total cost of 1- tub seal, 1-transmission O-ring and 4 bearings was only $60.00. Also, as others have mentioned, you will spend more time on mold and corrsion clean up, than on the actual tub overhaul. Sorry to report that little piece of news !
Dave[/quote]
Dave,
Solid feedback on the Tub clean up and easing out those 6 Spinner Suppport bolts and Spinner Support lock down. A recent forum member snaped off a few and went the direction I went with replacing the Spinner Support hardware with SS Helicoil inserts and SS hardware. Please keep the support going for the machine. All FAV6800A/FAV9800A DIY owners that refuse to junk the machine will appreciate the help.
Question did your Series 16 machine use the Upper Bearing ring and if not what did you use for shims on the lower Outer Tub bearing?
If you run into issues with the Lid Locks search in this forum under dh1200s, I have support for troubleshooting OD,OP and FL error codes associated with the Left Hand Lid Lock. Other issue support like ND error code related to Drain Pump and Pressure Switch trouble shooting can be found on this and a few other forums I have posted on.
Very nice job on your repair/save of the machine.
Keep an eye out for machines being trashed or postings for used machines or owners parting out broke machines…the parts may come in handy.
As you have found the machine can be saved for low cost if the owner has a desire and some basic abilities.
Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to you and your family…Dick
Dick ( and all other DIY washer repair personnel),
I have only had this washer apart and do not fix washers for a living. I thought from what I had read on this forum that I would not be able able to find the late model bearings and spacer kit needed to repair the washer tub. I was prepared to fab up a spacer kit if needed. However, once this series 16 unit was torndown, it appears to me that it uses the early style bearing set-up based on the pictures in this thread. The bearings were marked made in China. However they also had the standard bearing marking that you qoute. ( I do not have that information in front of me) I can say that all of your pictures of the 4 bearings from your overhaul matched what my bearings looked like. The only change I made upon reassembly was I went from a DU center bearing to a RS center bearing. Fits fine and appears to seal better? The tub was supported by 2 large ball bearings and a cast iron spacer in the middle of the 2 bearings. Hope this clears up the question for the series 16 washer.
Dave
““I have only had this washer apart and do not fix washers for a living.””
Me too I’m a Electronics Tech by trade.
Sounds like your series 16 machine used the upper bearing ring as part of the Clutch Pulley assembly see pic below. The old style tub design used the upper bearing ring. I thought for a while Maytag moved over to the intergrated lower tub bearing in series 13 and above machines based on other owner feed back…not so.
The 6207 DU bearings are original and yes 6207-2RS is the replacement Outer tub bearing for the rebuild for all series machines from what I have seen…series 18 machine is the highest I have seen in the production run to date.
One day I’ll tare down my Series 16 or 17 that does not use the upper bearing ring and find out what shims are needed for the lower tub bearing using standard off the shelf 6207-2RS bearing replacements.
[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#000000]Sounds like you have a slight Tub Seal leak. If you go forward with the rebuild and come up with shims that do the trick please let me and other owners know. If you have or can borrow a set of digital calipers I would like to know the thickness of the dual Outer tub bearing.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I would become familiar with the thread [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#800080]FAV6800A/FAV9800A Outer Tub bearing replacement[/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#000000]. You can get the Tub Seal and Tranny O-Ring thru this site. Find the best price for the 6207-2RS bearings. If you think you may want to replace the Spinner Support bearings I will look for a link for the INA SCE-910 if you decide to replace it and the 6002DU in the Spinner Support.[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri][COLOR=#000000]I feel you have some time but I would do a complete bearing replacement if you go forward with the Tub Seal/Trany O-Ring replacement . The bearings are cheap it’s the down time and baring no issues pop up like I had where I snapped of a spinner support bolt that was severely corroded in as I described in the thread [/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][COLOR=#800080]FAV6800A/FAV9800A Outer Tub bearing replacement[/COLOR].[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]
[COLOR=#333333][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]My everyday Series 17 machine was on line while I rebuilt the Series 10. But as you can see from the Outer Tub bearing replacement thread those folks made it thru the fix. [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][COLOR=#333333][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3]I would post in this thread [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800080]FAV6800A/FAV9800A Outer Tub bearing replacement[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][SIZE=3][FONT=Calibri] for support or feedback that you have. [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]
[COLOR=#333333]Good luck and I’ll be around if I can help……….Dick[/COLOR][/quote]
Dick, I have a question for you. From what I have seen on this issue and my own experience the water leak starts at the trans o-ring (have studied mine very close, have worked on washers for 20 years) . They secure the trans to the tub hub using 4 bolts. The plastic trans will flex under some hard agitating causing the oring to leak alittle each time. I have come across this in other applications and can tell you its not the best design. What if you put some rubber sealer on both sides of the trans oring? Not silicone it will not stay. I would use a gutter sealant that is flexable when dry, repells water, can expand and retract, and seals under water. If it is clean it sticks very well. An oring will only seal on a smooth and flat surfaces. I would like to hear back from you on this it could save alot of labor and aggrevation.
Thanks Joe
