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stanwood9  
#1 Posted : Monday, June 29, 2015 6:48:17 PM(UTC)
stanwood9

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My Maytag washer is equipped with the in line orbital transmission.

It does not agitate in the wash cycle.

The tub fills, the tub spins, the pump drains the water from the tub. The motor reverses when required.

The washer timer runs thru the complete wash cycle and shuts off thinking it has completed a load of wash.

I would like an explanation of how this agitating mechanism is supposed to work. I have viewed many videos and have visited many washer repair sites sites before i found this site. I am impressed with fairbank56 and his solutions for ozarkhillbilly67 and icanfixit55.

I hope he responds to this inquiry.
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fairbank56  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, June 30, 2015 5:21:47 AM(UTC)
fairbank56

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What's going on with the motor and center pulley during agitation? If you tilt the machine back and rotate the center pulley CCW by hand, this should cause the agitator to go back and forth. If you can rotate it and the transmission input shaft is rotating but no agitation, then the transmission is faulty.

Eric
stanwood9  
#3 Posted : Tuesday, June 30, 2015 7:41:46 PM(UTC)
stanwood9

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fairbanks56 I am glad that you are responding to my post.

I have manually rotated the center pulley in the CCW direction as you suggested. The result was the transmission shaft rotates CCW with no agitation.

The transmission shaft also rotates CW when the center pulley is manually rotated CW (also without agitation).

Your response stated that if there was no agitation then the transmission is faulty.

Since the test indicates that the transmission is faulty, can it be repaired or must it be replaced?

In viewing the available parts drawings it appears that the transmission housing only contains the large bevel gear, the pinion gear, the yoke, the collar and a pin. All of these parts are available for purchase.

Is it likely that the problem can be solved by opening up the transmission and replacing all defective parts?

My wife loves this washing machine and would like for me to repair it if possible.

Thanks

Stan

PS
As a retired tool and machine designer I still don't understand how the agitation is achieved.
fairbank56  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, July 1, 2015 4:22:19 AM(UTC)
fairbank56

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Just to be clear, it is the transmission input shaft that is rotating, not the entire transmission? When rotating the pulley CW the entire transmission should rotate which is what makes the basket rotate for spin cycle.

Have you taken the dust cover off the bottom of the pulley? This will give you a view of the stop lug (photo below). The stop lug is splined to the transmission input shaft and is what drives that shaft in agitation mode. The cam on the pulley drives the lug. This is really the only way to see the transmission input shaft without the pulley removed. It's possible that the splines on the stop lug are stripped.

If you find that the input shaft is indeed being rotated, I would then remove the agitator to inspect the splines inside the agitator and on the transmission output shaft. If you still come to the conclusion that the transmission input shaft is being driven but the output shaft is not, then you can open up the transmission and yes, it can be repaired.

The way it works is that the input pinion drives the bevel gear which drives a yoke that moves the output shaft back and forth. See photo below (input shaft on left, output on right). The transmission is full of oil so open it with the cover facing upwards.

Here is your parts manual with transmission exploded view.
http://shared.whirlpoolcorp.com/assets/pdfs/literature/Repair%20Part%20List%20-%20LAT8435AAE.pdf

Eric

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stanwood9  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, July 1, 2015 8:29:00 AM(UTC)
stanwood9

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You are proof that you can teach an old dog new tricks.

Your last post with photos and your clear description of how the agitating mechanism is supposed to work was very helpful and i now feel comfortable in tackling this repair.

Answers to your questions:

Yes it is the entire transmission (gear box) rotating when I rotate the pulley in either the CCW of the CW direction.

I removed the agitator, the internal spline shows very little wear nor does the external spline show any wear on the end of the transmission output shaft.

I removed the dust cover and observed that when i rotated the pulley in either direction it rotated the entire transmission including the agitator as if it were one piece.The basket also rotates with the above when rotated in either direction.

The key observation was that the stop lug was not seated in the cam pulley pocket. There was approximately .030 clearance between the top of the pulley cam and the bottom of the lug. This would indicate that perhaps the spline drive on pulley has seized to the spline on the end of the pulley end of the input shaft and will not allow the lug to engage. What part of the mechanism is causing the pulley to lift and seize and not engage the drive cam?

Would a good soaking with penetrating oil free this mechanism up or should i do the complete tear down?
fairbank56  
#6 Posted : Wednesday, July 1, 2015 8:57:00 AM(UTC)
fairbank56

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The entire transmission should not rotate at all when rotating the pulley in the CCW direction. Your brake is failing. The brake rotor is splined to the transmission's outer shaft and should prevent movement of the transmission except when in spin cycle. The lower end of the transmission inner input shaft is not splined to the pulley. The input shaft is helical like a screw and when the pulley rotates in the CW direction it "rides" up this helical shaft. This pushes the bearing on the upper side of the pulley against the brake rotor to release the brake. At the same time, there is downward force on the transmission input shaft which engages a clutch inside the transmission. The clutch consists of two disc washers below the input pinion gear. One washer is splined to the shaft, the other is not. The downward force on these washers squeezes them together so that now the input shaft is "locked" to the transmission housing and that combined with the release of the brake allows the whole transmission to rotate. The inner basket is secured to the upper outer transmission shaft. Your going to need to replace the brake package. This requires a special spanner wrench. See this video for instructions on replacing the brake.

http://www.appliancepartspros.c...6-2011900-ap4373089.html
http://www.appliancepartspros.c...-tj038315-ap5632784.html

Eric
stanwood9  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, July 1, 2015 6:13:44 PM(UTC)
stanwood9

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I have removed the belts, stop lug, pulley and brake assembly retainer leaving the brake assembly which requires the special tool for removal. All removed parts are in excellent shape.

I observed the condition of the internal helix on the pulley and the external helix on the end of the input shaft. They are both in good to excellent condition.

The internal spline on the stop lug mates with the external spline on the end of the input shaft with minimum radial movement.

I am able to rotate the input shaft in both directions using my thumb and forefinger. The shaft rotates freely including rotating the output shaft.

There are no leaks from either the inner or outer tub. I am going to assume since the shafts turn so freely and i have no leaks that I do not have to replace any bearings or seals.

I am also counting on the clutch parts at the base of the pinion gear operating as designed.

As per the recommendation in your last post i have ordered the Brake assembly and the Brake assembly tool from ApplianceParts. I should receive my shipment in 5-7 days.

If we can leave this thread open that long i will inform you of the results of installing the new Brake.

Eric, when i started this discussion on your forum i was thinking i would be receiving some basic guidance like "your going to have to do a complete tear down to find the problem", but you have zeroed in on my solution in our exchange of posts and i can not be more pleased. You are indeed an expert on this washing machine design.

Thanks again,

Stan

PS:
The special tool required to remove and assemble the Brake assembly to the washing machine costs more than the Brake Assembly.

After using the tool twice I will have no further use for it.

I would suggest maybe a $20.00 charge for a 15 days tool rental with a $50.00 deposit. A $30.00 refund would be issued upon return of tool.
OR
Offer a $25.00 buy back for returned tools.

Just a thought
stanwood9  
#8 Posted : Thursday, July 9, 2015 11:29:50 AM(UTC)
stanwood9

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fairbank56,

I have installed the new brake assembly on my Maytag model lat8435aae washer that you diagnosed as the reason my washer would not agitate. I wish to inform you that the new brake assembly corrected the non-agitating problem.

However, now the washer will not spin.

I installed the new brake assembly using the spanner tool i purchased from AP per your suggestion, making sure that it was tight to the mating part and locked the brake in place using the sheet metal thread lock clamp.

Started a wash cycle with the water fill, wash (agitate), but when the washer went into the spin part of the cycle, the belt spun on the stopped pulley and did not spin the tub. The transmission appeared to be locked up. At this point. I shut off the washer as there was a smell of burnt rubber.

What can I do to correct this problem?

Thanks,
Stan
fairbank56  
#9 Posted : Thursday, July 9, 2015 2:06:53 PM(UTC)
fairbank56

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Something must not be installed correctly. Rotating the pulley CW by hand should cause the pulley to "climb" the agitator shaft which causes the radial bearing on the top side of the pulley to push up on the brake rotor releasing the brake to allow the transmission and tub to rotate.

Eric
stanwood9  
#10 Posted : Thursday, July 16, 2015 11:54:06 AM(UTC)
stanwood9

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Eric, as you suspected in your last post. something was installed incorrectly.

It turned out that in my haste to install the new Brake Package that i ordered from APP I failed to remove the radial bearing from the top of the old Brake and install it in the new Brake before installing it in the Washing machine. I had forgotten that I had seen the video on installing a new bearing you had linked to in an earlier post.

I had to kind of start over on the repair so i studied the repair manual that the APP tech support sent me as a download and the installation of the radial bearing in the Brake was featured in a photo. This jibed my memory of the video so I went back and watched the video again. I guess it would have helped if there had been an instruction sheet furnished with the new brake.

The repair manual also mentions that the bearing, the Brake spline and the helix on the pulley and input shaft should receive a coating of grease. I did apply the grease as recommended and this did make the assembly easier.

I made sure that the Brake was assembled tightly to the damper and that the thread locking device was properly installed. I then installed the stop lug per the instructions in the manual.

After installing the belts, i manually rotated the pulley in both directions and could observe that the washer was working properly.

Since the repair was completed my wife has done about 10 loads (5 days) of wash. The washer performs like when it was new (we purchased washer in 1995).

Thanks for all your help and expertise. You made momma happy and we all know what happens when momma isn't happy!

The new brake, assembly tool and shipping cost about $100.00. I figure I saved a minimum of $400.00 (versus replacing with new) by dealing with AppliancePartsPros for my repair diagnosis, advice and assistance.

Since my washing machine issue is now resolved and i am very happy with the results achieved with my experience with APP I will say thanks again and will recommend you guys to all who will listen.

Stan
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