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Doug13031  
#271 Posted : Wednesday, December 17, 2014 3:22:52 PM(UTC)
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Doug13031

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Thanks for the suggestions thus far. Finally got the trans out, had to use a small pry bar to break it free. Talk about crud city under there. I am about to tackle removing the shaft bolts. Just for my own information, can you remove the tub seal and replace it without removing the spinner shaft?
Thanks,
Doug
dh1200s  
#272 Posted : Wednesday, December 17, 2014 5:08:23 PM(UTC)
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dh1200s

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Just for my own information, can you remove the tub seal and replace it without removing the spinner shaft?


I believe somewhere in this thread a owner did that. If you have help to lift out the inner tub you may be able to do that. Make sure you review permalink #3 where I discuss removing the old Tub Seal Sleeve from the Spinner Support.......that has to be removed from the Spinner Support shaft before you install the Spinner Support back in the new Tub Seal. In your new Tub Seal is the new sleeve.
Doug13031  
#273 Posted : Tuesday, January 6, 2015 5:58:26 AM(UTC)
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Doug13031

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So I just want to give an update on how the repair went.
Problems: When removing the six bolts holding the inner tub to the spinner hub, five of the six broke, which I believe is the new record. Since most broke by just having the heads break off, the tub was still wedged to the shaft hub and would not separate from it at all. At this point I flipped the whole thing over and used a 1.75 inch socket on an large impact driver and took off the nut holding on the outer tub. Then I had to put a block of wood on the end of the shaft and give it a few smacks with a hammer to get the outer tub off. I tried to do it the right way and use a bearing puller to pull out the outer tub bearings, but neither one would budge. I ended up taking a two foot length of iron pipe and pounding out first the inner one with the tub upside down and then turned the tub over onto a couple of block of wood under the bearing area and pounding out the outer bearing from the inside. The wood was necessary to elevate the plastic parts of the tub from the floor, in effect keeping the impact just on the metal parts. Both bearings came out rather easily, just went slowly and evenly around the bearing, making sure not to let them get too crooked. Back to the inner tub, I use a very thin pry bar and slowly separated the hub from the tub, with no breakage. At this point I will give a bearing update, the two outer tub bearings were not that bad, both had a lot of rust on them, but both still spun rather smoothly. The tub seal was in horrible shape, but that was expected. But the real disaster was the two bearings in the spiiner shaft. When I turned that it sounded like gravel, so I had to replace them both also. I put a block of wood on the top of the shaft and pounded out the bottom one which came out stuck around the shaft. I then used a bearing puller on the upper bearing and it came right out. I then pounded off the bearing stuck to the shaft with a length of one inch diameter iron pipe, and it came right off.
On the the spinner shaft hub. I could not get the broken bolts out no matter what I tried. I used various broken bolt extractors with no success. So I decided I would have to drill them out. Well that did not go too well. I was using a drill press, but even with that the bit would not stay on the bolt, it would keep slipping off to the side, so no luck there. I then decided I would drill them out from the back side and just put the whole thing back together with bolts with nuts. Well that did not work either, once the drill bit hit the bolt it would slip off to the side. For being such tough bolts, they sure broke easily enough. At this point I was a little ticked off, so I decided to go barbaric on this thing and took a 1/8 inch drill bit and drill many little holes around the bolts, gave them a little smack with a hammer and they were finally gone. The holes were a little bigger, but that was nothing a few washers would not fix. I am not recommending this method by any means, but I have no machine shops around here to take it to, I had to do this myself, and I was on a clock (family needed a washer, four daughters). So, to be clear the part the the bolts screwed into was now gone, and I would have to use nuts on bolts to join the parts back together. I ground the back surface, where the nuts would go, smooth with some grinding wheels.
Clean up: I scrubbed out the tubs, the spinners, the transmission until they were all clean inside and out. I wire brushed the spinner shaft and inside all areas where the bearing were to go. I pried off the metal part of the tub seal that stayed on the hub, which incidentally was hard to see. All the corrosion in that area made everything blend together. I only found it by taking apart the new seal so that I could see what I was looking for. Then I wire brushed the whole spinner hub until it was clean, especially where the trans seal went and the tub seal. The part that rode inside the outer tub bearings was very clean and required no clean up at all.
Reassembly: The first comment I want to make is about bearings. My machine used the thick one way bearing on the bottom of the outer tub, however it also had the recesses for the white plate with the one way bearing in it that comes with a new clutch pulley assembly. If your tub has two big notches on either side to the large 1.75 inch nut on the bottom of the tub, you can also use the white plate. So I lubed up the bearing and installed the inner tub bearing of the outer tub first with a bearing installer, in retrospect, this was the hardest one to install due to the fact that it cannot be seen while installing it. Be very careful to keep it straight and level. I then flipped the tub over and put in the spacer sleeve(also well lubed) and installed the outer bearing (well lubed). I installed both of the spinner shaft bearings(more lube) into either end of the spinner hub by starting them with a bearing installer and finishing up with some impact sockets of the exact diameter to seat them into place with some gentle tapping. I then lubed up the spinner shaft and inserted it into the bearings. Now to install my modified hub back onto the inner tub. Just for fun I ran a bead of black silicone gasket sealer around the edge of the hub, and set it into place. I then used 5/16 inch bolts, a flat washer, a rubber washer, through the tub and hub and another flat washer and then a lock nut, all stainless steel. Bolted it all up tight and even, we will see how it holds up. Time to put the outer tub onto the inner tub. First I lubed up all the bearings and bearing surfaces with synthetic water proof lube, installed the tub seal and tried to put it together, but it would not go. I finally had to separate the tub seal sleeve from the tub seal, push it down around the spinner hub, and then install the outer tub. That worked great, it went right together. I had to use a large spacer washer (m36 zinc oxide) on top of the outer tub bearing to make up for the size difference between the original unobtainable bearing and the replacement bearing. I then threaded the large nut back on the shaft, but could not tighten it, everything kept spinning, so I gave it a few turns with the impact driver to snug it up good and tight. I then put on the white disk with the one way bearing, the shaft that goes between the two bearings and the clutch pulley and bolted it on. I then put the tub assembly back into the washer. The rest of the assembly was by the book. Install the trans o-ring, well lubed of course, the trans, the spinners, etc.
Test: Started it up, ran through the diagnostic quick wash and spinner test, and could barely hear the thing spin it was so quiet, Wow!. No water leakage of any kind. Ran a few small loads through it to check it out, since that is what it would not wash was small loads, and it worked fine.
Parts:
1 Tub Seal 25001090
1 Tub O ring 25001105
2 Outer tub bearing 6207-2rs
1 Upper spinner support 6002-2rs
1 Lower shell shaft bearing SCE-910
1 Clutch Pulley 25001169
1 M36 Zinc Oxide washer
Synthetic water proof lube
Retrospect: If you are going to do this job, plan on doing all the bearings, if one is bad they are likely all bad, and once you are into the machine this far, you might as well go all the way. Second, I am not sure why the inner tub has to be taken off of the spinner hub. The bolts are going to break, and ruin your day, and I believe everything can be replaced with those two parts left intact together. Just take out the whole inner/outer tub assembly as a unit, with help of course, flip it over and remove the large nut on the bottom and separate the two tubs. Everything can then be replaced at that point. The work inside the inner tub will be a little tight, but I think it would be better than the aggravation of breaking off all the bolts. I believe it is only recommended to take it apart by removing those bolts in the service manual because it states to replace the whole outer tub instead of the bearings, and probably the service technician is not able to lift out the whole assembly be himself.
Follow-up: I have washed more than twenty loads with no problems at all, very quiet, no leaks, no stains left on clothes. So far my modified hub has caused no problems. All is well, good luck with your repair.
thorning  
#274 Posted : Tuesday, January 6, 2015 6:12:54 AM(UTC)
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thorning

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Posts: 248

Originally Posted by: Doug13031 Go to Quoted Post
So I just want to give an update on how the repair went.
Problems: When removing the six bolts holding the inner tub to the spinner hub, five of the six broke, which I believe is the new record. Since most broke by just having the heads break off, the tub was still wedged to the shaft hub and would not separate from it at all. At this point I flipped the whole thing over and used a 1.75 inch socket on an large impact driver and took off the nut holding on the outer tub. Then I had to put a block of wood on the end of the shaft and give it a few smacks with a hammer to get the outer tub off. I tried to do it the right way and use a bearing puller to pull out the outer tub bearings, but neither one would budge. I ended up taking a two foot length of iron pipe and pounding out first the inner one with the tub upside down and then turned the tub over onto a couple of block of wood under the bearing area and pounding out the outer bearing from the inside. The wood was necessary to elevate the plastic parts of the tub from the floor, in effect keeping the impact just on the metal parts. Both bearings came out rather easily, just went slowly and evenly around the bearing, making sure not to let them get too crooked. Back to the inner tub, I use a very thin pry bar and slowly separated the hub from the tub, with no breakage. At this point I will give a bearing update, the two outer tub bearings were not that bad, both had a lot of rust on them, but both still spun rather smoothly. The tub seal was in horrible shape, but that was expected. But the real disaster was the two bearings in the spiiner shaft. When I turned that it sounded like gravel, so I had to replace them both also. I put a block of wood on the top of the shaft and pounded out the bottom one which came out stuck around the shaft. I then used a bearing puller on the upper bearing and it came right out. I then pounded off the bearing stuck to the shaft with a length of one inch diameter iron pipe, and it came right off.
On the the spinner shaft hub. I could not get the broken bolts out no matter what I tried. I used various broken bolt extractors with no success. So I decided I would have to drill them out. Well that did not go too well. I was using a drill press, but even with that the bit would not stay on the bolt, it would keep slipping off to the side, so no luck there. I then decided I would drill them out from the back side and just put the whole thing back together with bolts with nuts. Well that did not work either, once the drill bit hit the bolt it would slip off to the side. For being such tough bolts, they sure broke easily enough. At this point I was a little ticked off, so I decided to go barbaric on this thing and took a 1/8 inch drill bit and drill many little holes around the bolts, gave them a little smack with a hammer and they were finally gone. The holes were a little bigger, but that was nothing a few washers would not fix. I am not recommending this method by any means, but I have no machine shops around here to take it to, I had to do this myself, and I was on a clock (family needed a washer, four daughters). So, to be clear the part the the bolts screwed into was now gone, and I would have to use nuts on bolts to join the parts back together. I ground the back surface, where the nuts would go, smooth with some grinding wheels.
Clean up: I scrubbed out the tubs, the spinners, the transmission until they were all clean inside and out. I wire brushed the spinner shaft and inside all areas where the bearing were to go. I pried off the metal part of the tub seal that stayed on the hub, which incidentally was hard to see. All the corrosion in that area made everything blend together. I only found it by taking apart the new seal so that I could see what I was looking for. Then I wire brushed the whole spinner hub until it was clean, especially where the trans seal went and the tub seal. The part that rode inside the outer tub bearings was very clean and required no clean up at all.
Reassembly: The first comment I want to make is about bearings. My machine used the thick one way bearing on the bottom of the outer tub, however it also had the recesses for the white plate with the one way bearing in it that comes with a new clutch pulley assembly. If your tub has two big notches on either side to the large 1.75 inch nut on the bottom of the tub, you can also use the white plate. So I lubed up the bearing and installed the inner tub bearing of the outer tub first with a bearing installer, in retrospect, this was the hardest one to install due to the fact that it cannot be seen while installing it. Be very careful to keep it straight and level. I then flipped the tub over and put in the spacer sleeve(also well lubed) and installed the outer bearing (well lubed). I installed both of the spinner shaft bearings(more lube) into either end of the spinner hub by starting them with a bearing installer and finishing up with some impact sockets of the exact diameter to seat them into place with some gentle tapping. I then lubed up the spinner shaft and inserted it into the bearings. Now to install my modified hub back onto the inner tub. Just for fun I ran a bead of black silicone gasket sealer around the edge of the hub, and set it into place. I then used 5/16 inch bolts, a flat washer, a rubber washer, through the tub and hub and another flat washer and then a lock nut, all stainless steel. Bolted it all up tight and even, we will see how it holds up. Time to put the outer tub onto the inner tub. First I lubed up all the bearings and bearing surfaces with synthetic water proof lube, installed the tub seal and tried to put it together, but it would not go. I finally had to separate the tub seal sleeve from the tub seal, push it down around the spinner hub, and then install the outer tub. That worked great, it went right together. I had to use a large spacer washer (m36 zinc oxide) on top of the outer tub bearing to make up for the size difference between the original unobtainable bearing and the replacement bearing. I then threaded the large nut back on the shaft, but could not tighten it, everything kept spinning, so I gave it a few turns with the impact driver to snug it up good and tight. I then put on the white disk with the one way bearing, the shaft that goes between the two bearings and the clutch pulley and bolted it on. I then put the tub assembly back into the washer. The rest of the assembly was by the book. Install the trans o-ring, well lubed of course, the trans, the spinners, etc.
Test: Started it up, ran through the diagnostic quick wash and spinner test, and could barely hear the thing spin it was so quiet, Wow!. No water leakage of any kind. Ran a few small loads through it to check it out, since that is what it would not wash was small loads, and it worked fine.
Parts:
1 Tub Seal 25001090
1 Tub O ring 25001105
2 Outer tub bearing 6207-2rs
1 Upper spinner support 6002-2rs
1 Lower shell shaft bearing SCE-910
1 Clutch Pulley 25001169
1 M36 Zinc Oxide washer
Synthetic water proof lube
Retrospect: If you are going to do this job, plan on doing all the bearings, if one is bad they are likely all bad, and once you are into the machine this far, you might as well go all the way. Second, I am not sure why the inner tub has to be taken off of the spinner hub. The bolts are going to break, and ruin your day, and I believe everything can be replaced with those two parts left intact together. Just take out the whole inner/outer tub assembly as a unit, with help of course, flip it over and remove the large nut on the bottom and separate the two tubs. Everything can then be replaced at that point. The work inside the inner tub will be a little tight, but I think it would be better than the aggravation of breaking off all the bolts. I believe it is only recommended to take it apart by removing those bolts in the service manual because it states to replace the whole outer tub instead of the bearings, and probably the service technician is not able to lift out the whole assembly be himself.
Follow-up: I have washed more than twenty loads with no problems at all, very quiet, no leaks, no stains left on clothes. So far my modified hub has caused no problems. All is well, good luck with your repair.

You are to be commended for your perseverance in doing this repair. Any idea as to the cost of the parts and how much labor you put into it ? Also did you take any photos of it as you progressed ? I am considering doing this on a unit belonging to my neighbor but since it is such a bear of a job I am reluctant to start it due to the high cost and so much labor.
dh1200s  
#275 Posted : Tuesday, January 6, 2015 7:07:12 AM(UTC)
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dh1200s

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Doug,

Well done and outstanding feedback.....Dick
Doug13031  
#276 Posted : Tuesday, January 6, 2015 11:08:57 PM(UTC)
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Doug13031

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Posts: 5

Thorning, Thanks for the kind words. As far as cost goes, the two seals and clutch pulley were obtained here from the parts section. Currently clutch pulley $175, tub seal $30, Trans o-ring $5. The 4 bearings were all purchased off of amazon, and cost about $50 for all four. I know they can be found for less, but amazon delivered them fast, and I needed them now. Some synthetic water proof lube cost about $9 at ace hardware. I got the M36 washer at McMaster Carr but I'm sure you could find it elsewhere. I had to buy nine of them and they cost too much, about $18 with shipping. Time wise, I would guess I worked on it about 15 hours broken up over several days. I would also guess I could have cut that in half if I would not have attempted to remove the six inner tub bolts, and if I even half knew what I was doing beforehand. To do the repair again, I would say I could do it in about 4 hours tops. So overall not super cheap, but the result is phenomenal, the washer is easily as good as new, if not better.

Dick, thanks, without the benefit of your experience in this thread I could never have done this repair. The helpful hints you provided were just enough to get me through the tough spots. I wish I had taken pictures, some of them would have been classic. Oh well, maybe next time.
dh1200s  
#277 Posted : Wednesday, January 7, 2015 6:38:15 AM(UTC)
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dh1200s

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Posts: 460

Quote:
Currently clutch pulley $175


When I picked up my Clutch Pulley at the start of this thread it was $51 delivered to the house free shipping no ST. Somewhere in the many post possibly in this forum an owner picked up a One-Way bearing for the clutch pulley and pressed it in.......I have that bearing somewhere need to put my hands on it and give that a try.

I have other maint. threads in this forum for this machine series if you place dh1200s in the search box they will pop up.



Good luck folks........Dick
XYooper906  
#278 Posted : Thursday, February 26, 2015 9:24:50 AM(UTC)
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XYooper906

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Posts: 2

New guy here, but well experience with fixing my own stuff.

Thanks to this and other threads, I am in the middle of determining whether to fix my FAV6800AWW Series 11 washer.

I have the machine apart, outer tub bearings removed. Several posts say that the tub seal comes with a new sleeve for the spinner support shaft. But I can't find a picture of the new seal that shows the sleeve with it. My local parts store can't verify it either since they're looking at the same pics I am.

If not, I may be able to match one. I have used Speedi/Redi-Sleeves before.

Can someone verify that I will receive a sleeve with the new tub seal?

Thank you!
dh1200s  
#279 Posted : Saturday, February 28, 2015 8:05:44 AM(UTC)
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dh1200s

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I found on mine when I pulled the replacement Tub Seal out of the package it was pressed into the new seal.

You removed the old sleeve from the Spinner Support shaft on tear down correct?

Pick up the tub seal it should be in the tub seal..........everyone agree?
XYooper906  
#280 Posted : Monday, March 2, 2015 12:52:03 PM(UTC)
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XYooper906

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Originally Posted by: dh1200s Go to Quoted Post
I found on mine when I pulled the replacement Tub Seal out of the package it was pressed into the new seal.

You removed the old sleeve from the Spinner Support shaft on tear down correct?

Pick up the tub seal it should be in the tub seal..........everyone agree?


I didn't get far enough to remove the sleeve, but it definitely needed to be replaced with the seal. That's why I was asking if it came with the seal.

In the process of evaluating the outer tub prior to ordering anything, I found cracks in the plastic of the support lugs. I abandoned the repair and purchased a new washer.

Thanks for your reply!
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