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Whirlpool belt-drive won't spin when it's supposed to
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I am baffled by this Whirlpool LA980P, also known as an LA9800XPN1. This is a belt-drive unit with electronic controls. I replaced the outer tub (and spin tube gasket). Now it's leak-free, but doesn't cycle right. When it's supposed to pump and spin--it agitates indefinitely (waiting, I suppose) for the water to pump out that's not pumping out.
The solenoids on the wig-wag are good and working correctly.
I ran all the electronic tests (successfully) and also did the following:
--With no water in tub, selected "Rinse and Spin". Tub filled with water and agitated indefinitely.
--With water in tub, selected "Spin Only". Unit agitated indefinitely!!
--With water in tub, removed tubing from water level control and replaced (releasing the air pressure), then selected "Spin Only". The unit spun and pumped correctly.
The third test proves that the spin solenoid and pump are working--but why does the unit have to "think" there's no water in it. Apparently the pump is supposed to run earlier, but it's not doing so.
The unit was working fine (except for leaking) before I replaced the tub. What could be the problem? What other tests should I run?
Thanks for any advice.
Larry M
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Rank: Member
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I'm beginning to realize that the problem isn't failure to spin, but failure to pump. Instead it keeps agitating. Is there something mechanical that actuates to go from agitate to pump?
Larry M
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Hi Lmarks
I would recommend to check wires to the wig-wag. Otherwise the problem with your washer is so unusual that I can not give you any advise without seeing the unit.
Gene.
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Gene,
Both motor relays check out. Continuity between COM and NC with nothing on the coil. Apply 120VAC to coils and each clicks and then has continuity between COM and NO.
I've watched it run cycles and each wig-wag solenoid selects at what seems to be the proper time. This seems to mean that the solenoids are working as
they are supposed to. Because the agitate and spin solenoids are working, and their power comes through the water level switch, that seems to mean that the water level switch is okay.
Maybe this will give a hint. There is a self-test for the electronic control board which works like this:
1. Power on
2. Press "Perm Press" and "Knits/Gentle" at the same time.
3. Press "Cold Wash"
4. Correct action: "If water level switch is in FULL position, test should start. If Water Level switch is in Empty Position, must press "Perm Press" to start test.
My symptom #1: Must always press "Perm Press" to continue.
5. Test proceeds with High Agitate and "Reg Heavy" LED, as it's supposed to.
6. Test proceeds with no outputs and "Perm Press" LED, as it's supposed to.
7. Correct Action: If water level switch is on full, test is supposed to proceed with Lo agitate and "Knits/Gentle" LED. If water level is on Empty, must press "Perm Press" to continue.
My symptom #2: Must always press "Perm Press" to continue.
8. The next seven steps all run correctly.
By studying the schematic, this suggests that something is going on with the full/empty state. But since the water fill contacts control agitate and spin and fill, the switch itself seems to be working. The electronics board senses these states on Tan (Water Level Full) and Purple (Water Level Empty). I'm beginning to fear that one of these inputs to the controller board may have failed.
UPDATE FOLLOWS:
Either I don't understand this test, or the test and schematic (which was tucked into the machine's control panel) does not apply to my machine, which has an continuous water level selector. Either it's for machines with a multi-position switch or they really mean that the water level is full to the point that the switch trips. My reasoning: regardless of how this water level selector is set. it's at empty until there's some pressure on it.
Can you tell me more about the water level switch? Does it have three states? Empty, Full, and Neither? Or just two? It it supposed to change state based on the lever position, or only on pressure?
Thanks a lot for the advice so far.
Larry
Computer designer in Raleigh, NC with lots of electronic and electromechanical experience.
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 8/28/2007(UTC)
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An additional clue: I ran a gentle wash cycle, which is supposed to agitate (low) for eight minutes, then partial drain. Instead it ran agitate (low) for eight minutes, then switched to agitate (high).
Now to figure out what's different between drain and agitate high.
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Hi Lmarks
Most likely in such situation the problem is with one of the two parts: the water level switch or the control board. Unfortunately both of them are no longer available.
Gene.
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Rank: Member
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I have it figured out--amazing what a good night's sleep will do.
For some reason, the wig-wag can push the agitator cam towards the front when it's supposed to, but is not retracting it when that's supposed to occur, for a drain cycle. (If I manually force a spin cycle, that's enough to cause the retraction.)
First I will try lubricating the cam and slide areas. If that doesn't do it, I will watch the operation and see if there's too much wear.
Both of the solenoid armatures are really sloppy fits inside their coils. Are they supposed to be that sloppy? Or are they supposed to be a snug fit? I'm thinking that the solenoid armature goes off axis enough that the pin doesn't reach the lower cam slot and doesn't drop.
Larry M
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Hi Lmarks The plunger shaft which goes inside the coil should be loose. Such condition is normal. Check both plungers pins. It's possible that one or both of them are bend or loose. If they are then replace them. Also the cam bars could be worn out. - The part number for the new plunger (included the pin) AP3098440 - The part number for the new wig-wag with plungers and pins AP3123061 - The part number for the new spin cam bar AP3098458 - The part number for the new agitate cam bar AP2905585 - Here are the break down diagrams for the Whirlpool belt driven washer Model LA9800XPW1Good luck. Gene.
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Rank: Member
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Well, it wasn't mechanical. Everything was smooth, even before I added a little grease on the friction points.
So I laid on the floor and watched a gentle wash cycle. This is the most diagnostic, because you can tell when the agitate cycle is "supposed" to end because the motor switches from low to high speed. The agitate solenoid is supposed to release. My first guess was that it was mechanically not releasing, but when I actually watched through the 8-minute wash cycle (electronic timer, no way to speed it up), I saw that the solenoid was not releasing. It still had power when the motor went to high speed, supposedly to pump.
So you were right, Gene. It is the controller board. I have a couple of EE degrees, and have had good luck fixing such things. (I fixed an engine control module (ECM) in my Mitsubishi for $4.00 in parts, saving $500.) So I looked at the board for a few minutes.
My guess is that triac 105 is "latching up". Triac 105 is the agitate triac, connected to the Yellow wire. It turns on but won't turn off. When I power off the entire washer to force a spin cycle, it of course unlatches. A new triac, just ordered, costs 32 cents. I will solder it in and see if that fixes things when it arrives. If not, I haven't lost much.
I needed to order some other parts to fix a heat pump controller board anyway.
Thanks a lot for your encouragement. You were right after all.
Larry Marks
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Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Senior Expert, Administrators
Joined: 7/19/2007(UTC)
Posts: 27,455
Was thanked: 4 time(s) in 4 post(s)
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Hi Larry
I'm glad to hear you found what's wrong. It's a pleasure to deal with people like you. If any further questions - I'm always here.
Gene.
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