Brand: Kenmore
Model Number: 665.13209N411
Main Symptom: top rack doesn’t clean
What happens & when: throughout cycle
Error Code (if any):
Parts or tests already tried:
Photos / video link:
Have you checked to see if there is enough water filling the tub? If there is plenty of water, then check the spray arm for clogs. After that, you are looking at replacing the main wash motor.
How does a main motor only affect the upper spray if bottom spray cleans well?
The ability of the motor to turn fast enough to push that water up to the upper rack. If a motor is failing to turn fast enough, it can have enough push to move the bottom spray arm but not enough to push it up against gravity to the upper spray arm.
If the upper spray arm is position where it points to the 12 and 6 o’clock positions, the diagnostic mode can be activated to directly identify if water is reaching the upper spray arm. Press the high temp, turbo heat dry, then the turbo zone keys quickly and repeat this pattern two more times (should be a total of 3 button press patterns). This will enter the dishwasher into a diagnostic mode where it will show initial error codes at first, then fill and start to wash using the upper spray arm. After the dishwasher has completed the fill cycle and started operating the motor for 15 seconds, the door can be opened slightly (water will splash out if it is opened fully). After the door has been open for a couple of seconds, the upper spray arm can be checked to see if it has rotated from the position it was set in. Once this is identified, the door can be shut and the diagnostic cycle allowed to complete on it’s own. The entire diagnostic cycle lasts for 23 minutes and can help identify if there are any errors found, it will show new ones at the end. Does the spray arm move or did it stay stationary?
William M, sorry, I missed this post. I will run the diagnostic and report back. Thanks for the assistance.
Ran diagnostics, upper arm did not move.
Inital codes:
F7-E1
F8-E2
At the end of cycle: E-,F-, repeated several times. It looks like no error codes at the end. Am I correct?
If the arm didn’t move should it produce a code.?
Is there a special motor that controls flow to the upper arm, or does the primary washer motor control everything?
Thank you.
The upper spray arm not moving would not necessarily produce an error code, this check was to see if anything would come up that related to the diverter motor or circulation pump. The error F7-E1 is a heating issue while the error F8-E2 is a drain motor issue. Here are some checks that can be done.
- Inspect the spray arm and water supply tower for any cracks or clogs.
- Inspect the diverter plate for any damage or clogs that might prevent it from rotating.
- Remove the front door panel, locate the connection P7. With a meter set to Volts AC, activate the diagnostic test and use the meter to immediately test from the blue wire at pin 4 to the blue wire at pin 6. Does 120 Volts AC show up around 50 seconds into the diagnostic mode?
Here is a picture of the control layout and how it would be wired. The blue lines are indicating the diverter motor wires for testing.
“The error F7-E1 is a heating issue while the error F8-E2 is a drain motor issue.”
Do these codes mean I have an unrecognized problem, or is this just cycling thru codes?
Do you have a link for disassembling the water tower to check for clogs?
The error codes are errors that were identified at one point, may not necessarily be from anything recently unless a diagnostic test mode has been ran prior to now. An easy way to check the water tower would be removing the mounting screw at the bottom and removing the lower spray arm from the diverter cover. The water tower screw should be in the center of the distribution manifold. Once the screw is removed, the diverter cover should be able to rotate counter clockwise when the locking arm is lifted. The cover should then be able to lift out of the way. With this done, water can be poured into the tower where the middle spray arm connects. If water goes through to the bottom as quickly as it is poured, the tower is not clogged. Removing the diverter cover will also allow for the diverter plate to be checked for any debris that might stop it from being rotated by the diverter motor.
William M, sorry I have been out of pocket with other more pressing repairs. We have been using the dishwasher bottom rack, since the upper rack won’t clean. I removed the water tower and flushed it thru all tube holes and it is clear. I removed the lower spray arm, filter and cover plate to see the white plastic plate with a hole. No clogs. Am I correct that the diverter motor rotates the white plate to allow the hole to line up with the tube to the tower and upper arm? If the diverter motor is bad, would this likely be the source of no water to the upper arm. I ran the diagnostic you provided after putting it back together and the upper arm did not move.
Does this mean it’s the diverter motor or could it still be the main motor too weak to get water to the top?
Thank you for your help.
A way to identify which one it may be would be to listen for water spraying around inside of the dishwasher when the diverter motor should have shifted to the upper spray arm. If you hear water spray around, the diverter motor is not shifting. If you do not hear water spray around, the circulation pump would be the most likely issue.
. The unit is very quiet, but I can hear the spray as the lower arm moves. How do I know when, in a standard cycle, the upper arm should have activated?
By circulation pump, do you mean the main sump pump motor below the lower spray arm? If the circulation pump is a separate part on the sump assembly and it fails, shouldn’t both the lower and upper arms fail to move?
The circulation pump, or sump pump, will briefly pause when the diverter motor shifts. Are there periods where the circulation pump can be heard but there is not water spraying around? This would indicate the circulation pump has weakened and is not able to push the water through to the upper spray arm.
Thanks for sticking with me and my problem. I have checked for blockages by removing manifold and found nothing. Previously, I reported the top rack doesn’t clean and the top spray arm doesn’t rotate during a full cycle or by using the test mode you provided. Also, no water in bowl placed on top rack after full cycle. I was considering pulling the dishwasher and examining the circulation pump for blockage. All of a sudden, the bowl in the top rack was full of water, the top rack dishes were clean, and I could see water draining from the holes of the top spray arm if I opened the door mid cycle. But the arm never moves! I have checked several times and the arm never moves from the 12/6 position during the whole cycle. I removed the arm to look for cracks and it seems fine. What does this mean?
Sure would appreciate a reply from the app team, especially William M, to my latest post. Thanks.