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frascati  
#1 Posted : Saturday, March 29, 2014 10:45:59 PM(UTC)
frascati

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I can't make logical sense of this.

We were cleaning behind the oven and when sliding it back into position I heard an arc/snap and the clock went out. Pulled the range back out and the back panel was dented in. We'd accidentally pushed the back of the range against an obstruction.

I removed the back panel and saw immediately what the problem was. The ends of the bottom element exit the range back and are connected to a red and yellow wire via push on terminals. The steel back of the range is pretty flimsy and is just under an inch away from these bare terminals. The panel contacted the red terminal attached to the element and shorted, tripping the breakers downstairs.

No big deal, eh? I pressed the panel back into shape, left it off, and went downstairs to reset the breakers. The clock runs. Blinking 12:00 o'clock with no error codes. The four stovetop elements work fine. But the bottom element won't heat. ????

Ok. I get out the circuit tester and the red terminal is getting 120. I check for continuity across the red and yellow terminals on the element and it's good. Seems the element isn't shot. I try the broil setting and the top element is not working either. So both elements are probably good. Must be upstream somewhere.

I look at a circuit diagram and there appear to be no separate fuses, fusible links, or high limit switches to replace.

UserPostedImage

Since the bake element red terminal is hot, and the yellow terminal runs uninterrupted to the main PC board behind the oven knob control, and the next circuit in line is the relay I crack the outer casing off of the relay and watch the contacts as I turn on the oven. Nothing. But neither is there action on the upper (broiler) element relay either with the oven dial know turned to broil. So the relays are probably, logically, not the problem. (The top element was not shorted out) So it's something upstream yet. The board is, with one exception of a large multipin IC, entirely "old school" with no SMDs. So spotting anything burned should be easy. All appears ok.

I also sharpened the end of a pencil sized oak dowel and used it to close the relay contacts with the oven temp selector knob turned on. The bottom element heated up just fine. Let me ask here.. is this bottom element 220? Is the relay grounding the heating element on the yellow leg and running the element at 110 off of the hot red wire? Or does the relay deliver 110 to the yellow leg thereby combining with the red to run the element at 220?

So What defies logic, to me, is that when the bottom element was accidentally shorted and the main service panel breakers were tripped the element was not energized. The temp control know was in the OFF position. Therefore the relay contacts were open. So any surge could not possibly have gotten to the circuit board beyond that relay.

I'm baffled. I'm a bit depressed about this. The range has plenty of good years in it. I had no intention of replacing it and am afraid to even look yet into the cost of a board replacement. Especially when It seems to me that the board might not be the problem.

What could have happened? The only possibility I can imagine is that a surge arced across the open relay contacts and entered the board. That's very unlikely, to my mind anyway, since it's only 120v and there is about 3mm of space separating the open contacts.

Any help on this?
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denman  
#2 Posted : Sunday, March 30, 2014 1:18:41 AM(UTC)
denman

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Here are your parts
Parts for Frigidaire MEF356BFWB Range - AppliancePartsPros.com

[COLOR="Blue"] Let me ask here.. is this bottom element 220?[/COLOR]
Both elements are 220.
One side of the elements are hard wired to L2 all the time.
That is why it shorted out.
The control relays then switch in L1 to provide 220 to the elements.
Neutral/ground is not part of the heater circuit.

I think that the control board (item 20A in section 02) is toast.
You will probably also need a new overlay (item 20B in section 02). Usually they are peel and stick and get ruined trying to remove them. Sometimes heating them up with a hair dryer helps get them off.

Any short/arc on a supply line is a voltage spike and can blow electronics.

There is a remote possibility that the oven sensor blew.
If the unit stays in pre-heat (never comes ready) then I would say that the sensor is OK.
Below is a link on how to check it. Look at 7, 8, 20 and 21.
http://www.applianceaid.com/ele...-range-repair-topics.php
THIS FORUM IS DEAD!!!!!!!
frascati  
#3 Posted : Sunday, March 30, 2014 6:08:38 PM(UTC)
frascati

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can you describe how I might have damaged anything at all in the first place?

The circuit is third grade elementary stuff. One side of the element is hot. the other side leads uninterrupted to relay. The relay contacts are NO (normally open). Thank you VERY much for that link. It's too late in the evening for me to check into the oven sensor. I'll do that tomorrow. Meanwhile.....

When I shorted the 110 volt hot against the oven frame that should have been it! As far as I can tell that short was 100 percent isolated from the rest of the oven, including the circuit board. One side of the bottom element is hot connected to the main service in the basement. The other end is separated from the other 110 leg by the relay. If the relay is in the open position then it makes no logical sense that I could have destroyed the circuit board.

What shorting actually affected the circuit board here?

Instead of spending 225 dollars replacing the circuit board I'm inclined to first attempt to replace the IC on the board....
.....ROBERTSHAW 53-00247-00 HD404316C39S 9911 JAPAN

Is this an available part? If so it would likely only be less than 10USD. Can anyone provide me a link to this IC?

And you're the third person to suggest that I need to bother with an overlay. I don't see it yet. My model number matches. Gibson must have shared basic oven units with Frigidaire.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/93.../sets/72157643167431764/

On this range there is no such overlay. The circuit board attaches to the rear of the panel and the panel itself has the "overlay" permanently a part of the stove's display on the front.

Thanks again, sincerely, for your input.
denman  
#4 Posted : Monday, March 31, 2014 1:06:20 AM(UTC)
denman

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[COLOR="Blue"]What shorting actually affected the circuit board here?[/COLOR]
The board electronics run off of L1 and Neutral/ground.
The board is not isolated as Neutral is common to both L1 and L2 supplies.
When you shorted to Neutral a large voltage/current spike was put on Neutral.
This then blew the electronics.

[COLOR="Blue"]Is this an available part? If so it would likely only be less than 10USD. Can anyone provide me a link to this IC?[/COLOR]
I do not think so but perhaps someone else will jump in.
googling the numbers did not bring up any infi.

[COLOR="Blue"]On this range there is no such overlay.[/COLOR]
The reason I added the overlay is that the picture of it's back in the parts breakdown is very blurry so I could not tell if it had peel and stick strips.
THIS FORUM IS DEAD!!!!!!!
frascati  
#5 Posted : Monday, March 31, 2014 1:23:06 AM(UTC)
frascati

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Ah well, sanguinity is my aim lately. Shirk the blows. I've been wanting a gas range for ever now and it's time i got serious about it.

I just now found a very nice gas range on craigslist locally for 400 dollars. I'll offer 300 to drive out Monday and pick it up for cash in hand.

Sometimes these things happen for the best.

Thanks for the advice here. I really appreciate the help of others willing to offer their skills on the web.
denman  
#6 Posted : Monday, March 31, 2014 2:35:56 AM(UTC)
denman

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I would be very very careful with craigslist purchases.

I frequently see units bought off of craigslist and then they need repairs.
The most common is that they need a new control board.
THIS FORUM IS DEAD!!!!!!!
frascati  
#7 Posted : Monday, March 31, 2014 2:44:57 AM(UTC)
frascati

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Posts: 4

thank you very much for the heads up on that. I'm not that saavy with craigslist but I do approach it with caution. I'll make certain that it's 100 percent demonstrably functional before carting it home.
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