Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/3/2009(UTC) Posts: 30
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wow, you were kinda hard on sublimemasterjw. (did you see right under his user name where it said senior expert?) huh? well lets see, you said there was about 1/8 inch of liquid in the pan and since you didn't give the size of the pan, I can only guess at that part, so let's say 18 X24. (a common size). Okay, no obvious signs of a leak, (your post #4), are we talking about the same capacitor you mentioned in your original post that you said, "some of the goo seems to be on the drip loops of the wires connected to it". That not only suggests to me it might be leaking, but makes it a virtual sure thing. As for the amount, a three inch by eight inch capacitor is a HUGE capacitor and if you consider that a soft drink can is 2 3/4 inches accross and only 5 inches tall....and contains 12 ounces then a capacitor your size would not only have enough to lay down a 1/8 " layer on an 18 X 24 pan, but have some left over. A capacitor is cheap and easy to replace, this is why he suggested you replace it. it was good advice.
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 10/18/2009(UTC) Posts: 18
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Thanks for the reply, toney. I see you are a new menber like me. My criticism centers on the fact that the forum is there to help, but has inadequate moderator supervision. Why do I say this? If you read all of my post, you will see that I waited 3 weeks and had 129 hits to the post, and not the courtesy of one reply by members or moderators.If sublimemasterjw. is a moderator, and he thought it was a water leak, like he said occurred to him when he first read the post, why no reply? Any dialogue is helpful, even if you are not sure, but silence is deafening and unaccetable, if the forum is here to help. Regarding your reply, the 3 rd line of my first post give the dimension of the floor as 2ft x 6in. I guess you missed that part. Regarding the cap volume, I have never opened a good cap, but I always have assummed the electrolyte interacts with metal and electrodes, so the volume of liquid in the cylinder is much less than the total size of the cylinder. For all I know, the amount of liquid is small, and most of the internal volume is taken up by other substances. Since I don't know, that's why I asked for help.I have never been a fan of replace parts and see, if you can actually understand first. Bottom line--I needed help, and there were a lot of viewers, but no one interested in providing a timely bit of help, no matter how simple it might be, until 3 weeks later, after my complaint.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Senior Expert
Joined: 5/6/2008(UTC) Posts: 724
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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The liquid inside a capacitor has a loose combination of battery acid, dishwashing liquid, and borax. In the middle of the glob is 2 aluminum plates. The liquid acts like 1 conductor and the plates like another. As long as all is well the the cap will do its job which is to allow current to all windings in the motor. After 30 seconds of start up the 2 pieces of metal seperate and open the flow of shocktricity. Then only half the windings in the motor are going. At some point in time the safety relief on the cap will give way. Probably due to the stress. Or vibration can sometimes rub a hole in the cap. Older caps had a resister to keep the arcing from killing the cap. I was thinking the cap had failed and leaked out the mess inside. But How could it be if the unit was working properly? When that stuff leaks out the cap is nothing but a shell with 2 thin strips of aluminum foil waiting for a quick death when 240 volts is applied. LOL During football season these DIY forums run dry just like that leaky capacitor. Sorry nobody could help you. I do not believe your problem is solved yet. Did you find out what the mysterious liquid was?
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 11/3/2009(UTC) Posts: 30
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may I suggest this....you said it was working in the heat mode but you had not tried the cooling soooo...put in the cooling mode and see if it works. If it does then by all means lets look somewhere else for an answer but if the cap. is dry it will fail instantly. don't worry it won't cause any damage to any of the components in your system if it is bad, it simply will not come on. Could be the compressor cap. or the condenser fan, but if it is dry you can bet it will raise its ugly head here. If it turns out to be the fan cap. then dont run it very long in the cooling mode. By the way what part of the country do you live in? The reason I ask is because if you live in a cool climate then the condenser fan could have been down a while and the system would still operate sufficently, just not very efficiently.
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 5/6/2008(UTC) Posts: 724
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Might be that the cap is only halfway empty and when all the goo finally drains out then the failure will occur.
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 10/18/2009(UTC) Posts: 18
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I checked the cap with my cap checker function of my fluke VOM. The cap is mounted upside down so the contacts are not easily seen. The readings were within 10% of spec for each of the dual ratings, and the a/c does run. Because of your analysis, I decided this situation doesn't make sense. So I took off all the wires and removed the cap for detailed exam. It felt heavy. In removing the wires, I noted that the common terminal rotated rather than being solid. This creates a tiny hole that had the goo on it. After removing the wires, the cap checker showed no reading at all, apparently because disconnecting the wires finally broke the common terminal connector. At that point I had to replace the cap. Here's the good part. After confirming the unit now runs with a new cap, and that the old cap was leaking, but still worked before I finally damaged the common terminal, I felt like there was only a small leak, so where did the large volume of goo come from? With the new cap removed again to get full access to the floor in front of the heat exchanger, I examined thoroughly all the goo in all areas of the front exchanger floor so as to clean it up. Turns out, most of the liquid is water on top of goo. The goo is a much smaller volume than I initially thought from my small vantage point, therefore, a small slow leak that I discovered at heat maintainance time, that hadn't yet completely disabled the cap. This is why I need a fresh approach from the forum, which helped me understand what the real problem is. Now I need to know where the water is from. Like I said in an earlier post, the p trap and closed drain in front of the unit is open all the way downstream to the plumbing drain. But it connects to the evaporator pan insidethe unit I suppose. How do I get access to check if the evap pipe is clogged and prevent future clogging? Coat hanger? Bleach? I hope you guys find this story interesting and can help me figure out the water drainage issue.
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Rank: Advanced Member
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Joined: 5/6/2008(UTC) Posts: 724
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Some folks used to use freon to blow out the line back in the day but that has been outlawed. You could use dry nitrogen I suppose or shop air. I use a wet dry shop vac. Their are some Pro-treat drain pan pills out there on the market that keep the drain flowing and the algae in check.
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Rank: Member
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Joined: 10/18/2009(UTC) Posts: 18
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Thanks for the tip. Is there a way to get access to the coil and drain pan on this combo gas pack by removing panels to see if it is filled with mold or stuff, and to see if the drain pan is rusted or damaged? I have a Heil combination hvac unit, gas heat/ac. Mod#npgaa60e1k6.
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Rank: Advanced Member
Groups: Senior Expert
Joined: 5/6/2008(UTC) Posts: 724
Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
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Can't say. Probably could tell ya more if I seen it. Maybe a tech will come along that knows a bit more about these.
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