Customer Support 7 days a week

Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

5 Pages<12345>
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
Brian27  
#21 Posted : Wednesday, June 30, 2010 6:08:44 PM(UTC)
Brian27

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/9/2010(UTC)
Posts: 19

Hello Gene,

You know, I was wondering if this unit had one (I've seen them on every other fridge). This fridge is 6 years old, and came with the house (bought a few years back). Unless the service guy misplaced it when he pulled it out to check, it wasn't there - and he didn't mention it being missing (but this guy was no appliance ace). I'll check the diagrams at APP (but I noticed the diagram shown was not an exact match to all components anyway).

It makes sense that the enclosure should channel the air - as it does in a PC case.

I checked the damper assembly today, and it looked clear, with the flap open (both plugged and unplugged).

Air flow from vent atop freezer (where the duct connects), was quite weak and not that cold.

I assume slots at bottom of fridge section are to recirculate air internally. I felt no flow there - and that's why I think it's iced up.

I emptied the contents, and will let it sit a few days, power off. I'll check it all after that. maybe all it needs now is a clean start.

Seems all the fans are turning with the new board, damper is open. compressor is cranking.

Were do for a heatwave starting this weekend - so it will be frost free by Monday.

Thanks for the tip about the compartment cover,

BRN..
Brian27  
#22 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 4:00:32 PM(UTC)
Brian27

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/9/2010(UTC)
Posts: 19

Hello to all,

Looks like the problem is finally resolved. The latest fixes have the ref/freezer holding their assigned temps for more than a week now.

I'll put a few notes here that should wrap things up, and may help those searching for solution to a similar problem.

1) The pro service my sister had in to assess the problem got it wrong. They charged $80+ to say that replacing the condenser fan motor would fix the problem (and they would be able to do that for another $360). As we got a new motor from APP for $70, including shipping, you can figure their labor charge - and the fan motor is easily accessible with one connector.

2) Replacing the fan motor did not fix the problem, and the only response from service co. was that the new motor must have been DOA - not true.

3) The experts on this forum said the main control board (MB), should be replaced along with the fan motor; and that this was a well known issue/recommendation - and proved correct in this case. The service co. should have known this.

4) One of the last tips from these forums was to make sure the back cover was in place, to assure proper air flow over coils and compressor. I found no cover, when I first checked out the fridge - I don't know why the service co. didn't mention it was missing. I later found it in the garage (the previous owners must have removed it; but at least they left it with the house).

5) The replaced condenser fan motor was not observed to turn, and that lead me to these forums, and eventual solution.

6) While going through the tests recommended, we kept the unit working with the use of a floor fan to keep the compressor from overheating. However, the initial symptoms (warming fridge, first too cold freezer then warming freezer) returned. (also little/no air flow through fridge vents).

7) Ordered and replaced MB leaving fan motor from APP in place. Fan was now turning; but little air flow through fridge vents, and was taking way too long to cool down. More checks to the forum had me inspect evaporator assembly (vents). That was clear, and flap was not obstructed.

8) I guessed that the unit might be frost bound, and unplugged the unit for 5 days. The drain pan was again filled to overflowing - so about 1/2 gallon of ice must have been blocking the airflow.

9) With new board and fan motor, and the unit now thoroughly defrosted, the unit powered it up - and everything has been working since.

My recommendations for others with similar situation:
a) If you opt to use a service co. get references from people you know. If they charge for a diagnosis, hold them to it. Check online to see what parts cost (I recommend APP), so you can figure out if it's worth it to have the service co do the repair, do it yourself, or buy a new fridge.

b) Don't use a struggling fridge while you sort out the problem and order parts - ask friends or family to keep your frozen food, and get a dorm fridge to tide you over. One failure can cascade to others; and it will make it harder to figure out the issues. Use the time to defrost the unit, and remove and clean all the drawers and shelves, as well as the inside of the unit. This will make it easier to work on, and you'll have a like-new fridge, if you get it fixed.

c) Search these forums for all related issue/solutions. Even if you don't do the repair yourself, it can't hurt to know more about the problem.

d) Document your repair efforts with a digital camera - if nothing else, you can be sure you haven't forgotten to put back anything you took out or disconnected - and you can post a picture, if you can't describe it.

e) If it's this make/model always replace the main control board (along with any fans that fail). My guess is that the old MB also caused the defrost cycle to fail, leading to initial and later ice build up. In this case, the new fan motor only worked after a new MB was installed.

f) Seriously consider an extended warranty on any similarly designed new fridge - this was a 6 yr old unit, with a 5 yr warranty (and I think we were lucky to get away with less than $200 in new parts. Compare that to my 'old school' fridge that cost me less than $10 for a defrost timer about 5 years back.


I want to thank everyone that replied to these posts. While I had to figure out a few things on my own (being on the spot), we wouldn't have a working fridge now, without you.

BRN..
Chris A  
#23 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 4:50:30 PM(UTC)
Chris A

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/13/2010(UTC)
Posts: 14

Hello,

I have a Kenmore side by side Model # 106.50582001. The edge of the door on the freezer side gets hot. Noticed that the fan for the compressor and coils is not working. Placed a fan on the floor ,turned it on low , now the door edge is cool again. Does this mean the fan is bad, or the thermostat ? And how would I check this problem out?


Thank you for any info

Chris:confused:
richappy  
#24 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 4:55:31 PM(UTC)
richappy

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Senior Expert
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 9,586

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Well said Brian, should make a note to managment that motherboards on these units must be replaced when motors fail and not to assume a shipped motor is bad.
richappy  
#25 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 4:59:57 PM(UTC)
richappy

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Senior Expert
Joined: 9/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 9,586

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
For Chris A, repost properly as a new post and try not to confuse us with entirely different issues.
Chris A  
#26 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 5:04:47 PM(UTC)
Chris A

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/13/2010(UTC)
Posts: 14

Originally Posted by: richappy Go to Quoted Post
For Chris A, repost properly as a new post and try not to confuse us with entirely different issues.


Sorry guys, I forgot to post my problem as a new one:o
Brian27  
#27 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2010 5:15:09 AM(UTC)
Brian27

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/9/2010(UTC)
Posts: 19

Thanks RH,

Given the pattern of failure, maybe a MB + fan motor bundle/kit would be a good option. I'd guess that the if such a kit made for more successful 1-and-done repairs, the customers would more likely to go that route - especially, if the economics allowed you you offer the two items at a discount.

I don't know if it would be a good idea to always try a MB replacement 1st - to see if the existing fan would work start working after replacing the MB. Advice here suggests there's no definitive field test for the fan motors. I've also seen here that new MB old motor did not work, nor did new motor old MB.

It's just my guess that the condenser fan motor failure is more common than evaporator fan motor failure. It also my guess that the condenser fan not turning is more likely to cause other problems - replacing MB and that motor at the same time makes sense.

I still don't like the design, as I think the true total cost of these complex "green" systems is more than is likely to be realized in energy savings - but what choice have we?

BRN..
markwidz  
#28 Posted : Monday, July 26, 2010 6:08:33 PM(UTC)
markwidz

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 1/29/2008(UTC)
Posts: 5

How do you remove the condenser fan motor to test it?
Brian27  
#29 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 3:56:45 AM(UTC)
Brian27

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 6/9/2010(UTC)
Posts: 19

Hi Markwidz,

If your model is the similar to the one talked about in this thread, the fan motor does not have to be removed to test it (to the extent it can be tested). There is one 4-wire connector located a few inches from the fan motor. Disconnect this and use the leads of your multi-tester/VOM to contact the color coded pins in the connector.

You'll see in the thread, that the only test you can do with the VOM is to test resistance levels to see if the motor is shorted. Even if the tests do not indicate a short, the fan motor may still be faulty (yes it's frustrating, there not being a definitive field test of the motor - see posts in this thread).

This motor is located on the lower right side - easy to spot once the compressor/coil access panel is removed (piece of slotted sheet metal at the bottom back). This fan consists of the motor and plastic fan blade piece that just pushes/pulls on/off the motor shaft.

There's a plastic piece that surrounds the fan portion and serves as a mount for the motor - you don't have to remove this entirely to take out the motor. A very short screwdriver comes in handy; as the coils are close.

You'll see in the recommendations I made, that I suggest replacing the Main Control Board (accessed behind a small metal plate, about 1/2 way up the back), and the fan motor at the same time. Sounds wasteful; and it is - but I didn't design this setup; and I wasn't the one that didn't provide field test data). the recommendation is based on collective experience, and seems the best way to get a one-and-done fix, and limit repeat failures.

I didn't like the idea of paying for a motor that was (as far as I could tell, using the available tests, not the problem), and why should we? As the fan motor was 1/2 the price of the MCB, it seemed the worth it to replace the motor at the same time as the MCB - total cost of fix about $200 (not including the $85 the local service company charged to misdiagnose the problem).

It won't help me, but I hope APP can do a deal with suppliers to sell the motor and the MCB as a kit, and at a discount.

Good luck with your project,

BRN..
Chris A  
#30 Posted : Tuesday, July 27, 2010 6:52:51 AM(UTC)
Chris A

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 7/13/2010(UTC)
Posts: 14

Originally Posted by: Brian27 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Markwidz,

If your model is the similar to the one talked about in this thread, the fan motor does not have to be removed to test it (to the extent it can be tested). There is one 4-wire connector located a few inches from the fan motor. Disconnect this and use the leads of your multi-tester/VOM to contact the color coded pins in the connector.

You'll see in the thread, that the only test you can do with the VOM is to test resistance levels to see if the motor is shorted. Even if the tests do not indicate a short, the fan motor may still be faulty (yes it's frustrating, there not being a definitive field test of the motor - see posts in this thread).

This motor is located on the lower right side - easy to spot once the compressor/coil access panel is removed (piece of slotted sheet metal at the bottom back). This fan consists of the motor and plastic fan blade piece that just pushes/pulls on/off the motor shaft.

There's a plastic piece that surrounds the fan portion and serves as a mount for the motor - you don't have to remove this entirely to take out the motor. A very short screwdriver comes in handy; as the coils are close.

You'll see in the recommendations I made, that I suggest replacing the Main Control Board (accessed behind a small metal plate, about 1/2 way up the back), and the fan motor at the same time. Sounds wasteful; and it is - but I didn't design this setup; and I wasn't the one that didn't provide field test data). the recommendation is based on collective experience, and seems the best way to get a one-and-done fix, and limit repeat failures.

I didn't like the idea of paying for a motor that was (as far as I could tell, using the available tests, not the problem), and why should we? As the fan motor was 1/2 the price of the MCB, it seemed the worth it to replace the motor at the same time as the MCB - total cost of fix about $200 (not including the $85 the local service company charged to misdiagnose the problem).

It won't help me, but I hope APP can do a deal with suppliers to sell the motor and the MCB as a kit, and at a discount.

Good luck with your project,

BRN..


Brian27

My side by side model is different. The fan is in the same place but it has a 4 prong conection with only 2 wires ...white and red. The red seems to all ways be hot (current in it) but the white never does:confused: . So I'm not sure if the fan should be on when there's current in the red wire:confused: And if the compressor is running ...shouldn't the fan be running at the same time:confused: As you can see I'm not so sure about any of the problems I'm having.I would really like to fine out if the fan motor is bad because they tell me their on back order! even though I've allready paid for it:mad: If you have any advice please let me know.
Chris
Users browsing this topic
5 Pages<12345>
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.