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Motor hums when wash pump should be running
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Model: 665.17034402 Brand: Kenmore Age: 1 - 5 years
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jimhokie  
#1 Posted : Sunday, November 13, 2011 6:03:41 AM(UTC)
jimhokie

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Joined: 8/29/2011(UTC)
Posts: 15
When starting a wash cycle, the dishwasher will add water, then when the wash pump should turn on, it just makes a humming sound. I thought the pump impeller may be jammed with debris. I dug down into the pump inlet area where there's a strainer and grinder wheel. I found several pieces of broken glass and some plastic wrap, so the strainer did its job of catching this stuff. I was unable to turn the pump shaft by the grinder wheel though, as the technicians instructions said should be fairly easy to do. For a couple weeks before it stopped working, the washer made much more noise than usual when the wash pump was running, so I wonder if something still didn't get into the impeller and jam it. I pulled the washer out and attempted to get into the pump internals from the underside, but couldn't figure out how to actually open up the pump. I assume the motor would have to come off, but couldn't figure out how to do that. But I was able to use a screw driver to rotate the motor by prying it against the motor rotor fan blades, although it seemed harder to turn that I felt it should. My questions that I hope someone can provide insight to:
1. How do I get into the pump itself to see if the impeller is jammed?
2. The troubleshooting suggestions also said the problem could be a bad pump motor start capacitor. Would the motor still hum if the start capacitor is bad? (I did notice the capacitor is dented, apparently from when the washer was removed and put in storage while major water damage to the house was repaired. Although, the washer still worked in the two years since. Maybe the dents could have shortened its life?)
3. I ran the diagnostic test per the technicians instructions, but not really sure what I was looking for, but I did notice an electrical burning smell during this. This further indicates to me the motor is getting power, but is jammed. What else besides a jammed impeller could prevent the motor from turning?
4. The troubleshooting recommendations for a jammed motor is to replace the pump/motor. I figure that will be an expensive part, thus my hope to be able to unjam it. Is this worth replacing the pump and motor for a ~5 year old washer?

Thanks for any assistance that someone can provide. My wife is on my case to get the washer fixed, or buy a new one (not financially a good time for that!).

Jim
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denman  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, November 15, 2011 3:55:49 AM(UTC)
denman

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Here are your parts
Replacement parts for KENMORE 66517034402 | AppliancePartsPros.com

The Sears parts site will have parts breakdowns for this unit.
Seems they like to keep the parts breakdowns to themselves.

See the attachment for the tech sheet for this unit.

Here is a manual.
I do not have a cross reference for Sears to Whirlpool units but the pump in this manual is the same as yours. Hopefully it will be a close match.
http://appliancedigest.com/index.php?/files/file/284-whirlpool-kd-12-point-voyager-dishwasher-service-manual/
You have to join the site to download the manual but it is free and this is a very good site for manuals and other info for the appliance repair DIYer.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]1. How do I get into the pump itself to see if the impeller is jammed?[/COLOR]
See the manual.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]2. The troubleshooting suggestions also said the problem could be a bad pump motor start capacitor. Would the motor still hum if the start capacitor is bad? (I did notice the capacitor is dented, apparently from when the washer was removed and put in storage while major water damage to the house was repaired. Although, the washer still worked in the two years since. Maybe the dents could have shortened its life?)[/COLOR]
Yes it could be the capacitor and it will hum as it is trying to start but is not getting the extra little kick from the capacitor to start it moving.
You did say there is the motor is harder to turn than you felt it should so it sounds more like a mechanical problem with either the motor or a seal or chopper/impeller.
You could disconnect the capacitor and check it with a meter for an open or short but this will not tell you if it is just weak as you cannot apply actual working voltages to it with a meter.
[COLOR="DarkRed"]
3. I ran the diagnostic test per the technicians instructions, but not really sure what I was looking for, but I did notice an electrical burning smell during this. This further indicates to me the motor is getting power, but is jammed. What else besides a jammed impeller could prevent the motor from turning?[/COLOR]
Could be the seals or the motor bearings.

[COLOR="DarkRed"]4. The troubleshooting recommendations for a jammed motor is to replace the pump/motor. I figure that will be an expensive part, thus my hope to be able to unjam it. Is this worth replacing the pump and motor for a ~5 year old washer?[/COLOR]
I cannot say if it is worth replacing. It depends on how satisfied you are with the unit and what kind of shape it is in.
For instance if the racks are starting to rust out and you feel they will need replacing in a year or so then it is probably not worth the investment.
But if the unit is in good shape and has been trouble free it may be worth it.
going on the premise of "Better the devil you know".
Pull it apart and see what is shot. You may be able to get away with just a couple parts. Replacing the pump/motor is just better as the odds of making a mistake and ending up having to pull the unit apart again is lower.
That may be worth the approximate $68.00 cost differential to you.
Also depends on how mechanically inclined you are.

Part number: AP4434021
Part number: AP4434021


Part number: AP4434617
Part number: AP4434617


Click on the part's picture for more info.

Note: That when replacing parts and seal a light coating of white lithium grease often makes assembly easier as the seals/gaskets should not grab and twist etc.
File Attachment(s):
17034402.pdf (168kb) downloaded 9 time(s).
THIS FORUM IS DEAD!!!!!!!
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jimhokie  
#3 Posted : Saturday, November 19, 2011 9:45:47 AM(UTC)
jimhokie

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Thanks, Denman, for all the info. I'm now thinking, with the noise the washer was making in the couple weeks before it stopped working, that it is most likely a motor bearing. So today I'm tearing back into it to remove the motor to confirm. The manual allowed me to find the well hidden bolt that prevented the motor from being turned to remove it on my first attempt. But now, even though I've rotated the motor the quarter turn to release it from the pump housing, I still can't pull the motor out. The manual says it "may require some effort to remove the motor". No kidding. I've pulled as hard as I can with both hands on the motor while rocking the motor, with my feet pushing against the washer frame and can't get it out. I lightly pried a screw driver against the motor and housing also, but I'm afraid to pry too hard against the plastic housing. Is there some other trick to getting it loose?
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jimhokie  
#4 Posted : Saturday, November 19, 2011 10:26:17 AM(UTC)
jimhokie

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Joined: 8/29/2011(UTC)
Posts: 15
Disregard that last post...once I figured out that the volute was also supposed to come out with the motor, I pried at the correct spot and it came out. Then after removing the impeller and volute, I found was much corrosion all around the inboard bearing. It appears there was some water leakage into the bearing. So a new motor it is!

Thanks again so much for your help, Denman!
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