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Kitchenaide hidden bake element, no power
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Model: KERC607HBS6 Brand: Kitchen Aid Age: 5 - 10 years
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ccypher  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, February 8, 2011 11:24:31 AM(UTC)
ccypher

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Posts: 4
I am looking for help with my freestanding kitchenaide electric range kerc607hbs6. I'm not sure how long I have had this problem, it's even possible it came from the factory this way, as I don't do a lot of baking. I noticed it has always taken a very long time to warm up and usually my food wasn't cooked unless I left it in longer the directed. I now believe that is because my broil element has been doing all the work. I took the oven apart and found the hidden baking element doesn't seem to work. I tested this by turning on the oven to bake, the broil element got red hot, the bake element, nothing. I turned the breaker back off after a few minutes of no action of the bake element.
The bake element tests when completely removed tests @ 25 ohms.
The thermal fuse in the control panel has continuity.
The other thing that looks like a thermal fuse in the control panel tests at 125 ohm.
There is an inline fuse on the red wire coming from the main power connection and going to a relay. I didn't cut the cover off to expose the fuse, but the wire has continuity from one end to the other.
I checked each leg coming to the element with power on, one of them seems to have power, the other which comes from a connector on the lower circuit board has no power.
Broil works
Convection works
Everything on the range works.
Lights work.
Any ideas? I'm not a paramedic, not a repairman. So although I have been all over the internet for looking for a solution, maybe I am overlooking something obvious? Thanks for any help.
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Joe / APP Team  
#2 Posted : Wednesday, February 9, 2011 11:56:13 AM(UTC)
Joe / APP Team

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Originally Posted by: ccypher Go to Quoted Post
I am looking for help with my freestanding kitchenaide electric range kerc607hbs6. I'm not sure how long I have had this problem, it's even possible it came from the factory this way, as I don't do a lot of baking. I noticed it has always taken a very long time to warm up and usually my food wasn't cooked unless I left it in longer the directed. I now believe that is because my broil element has been doing all the work. I took the oven apart and found the hidden baking element doesn't seem to work. I tested this by turning on the oven to bake, the broil element got red hot, the bake element, nothing. I turned the breaker back off after a few minutes of no action of the bake element.
The bake element tests when completely removed tests @ 25 ohms.
The thermal fuse in the control panel has continuity.
The other thing that looks like a thermal fuse in the control panel tests at 125 ohm.
There is an inline fuse on the red wire coming from the main power connection and going to a relay. I didn't cut the cover off to expose the fuse, but the wire has continuity from one end to the other.
I checked each leg coming to the element with power on, one of them seems to have power, the other which comes from a connector on the lower circuit board has no power.
Broil works
Convection works
Everything on the range works.
Lights work.
Any ideas? I'm not a paramedic, not a repairman. So although I have been all over the internet for looking for a solution, maybe I am overlooking something obvious? Thanks for any help.



Cypher,

Great job of diagnosing and testing voltages and circuits, and your descriptions,

Made it pretty easy to help you,

Based on the post and, a wiring diagram, you have,

Your Red wire from the element up to the PRB(power relay board)is broken or damaged.

Or your bake relay on the board is damaged internally, and you'll need to replace the board,

Part number: AP3085947
Part number: AP3085947


Thanks for your help.

:) :) :)
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ccypher  
#3 Posted : Monday, February 14, 2011 6:34:09 PM(UTC)
ccypher

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Posts: 4
I ordered the recommended part. Also I continued to obsess over other possible problems and noticed two more things, which may or may not be of any significance. I am hoping not....
I noticed the light on the right doesn't work, even when I replaced the bulb. Hopefully this is somehow related to the power relay board.
Also I noticed the stove is direct wired with three wires: two hot and a bare copper ground (black is hot, white is hot, no red wire, copper is connected to green wire). There is no neutral wire on the circuit. From what I have read this is not up to code currently, but the stove is at least 10 years old so maybe it was okay when it was installed? I just wonder not having the fourth wire could have lead to the power relay board going out prematurely?
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Joe / APP Team  
#4 Posted : Tuesday, February 15, 2011 9:16:04 AM(UTC)
Joe / APP Team

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Originally Posted by: ccypher Go to Quoted Post
I ordered the recommended part. Also I continued to obsess over other possible problems and noticed two more things, which may or may not be of any significance. I am hoping not....
I noticed the light on the right doesn't work, even when I replaced the bulb. Hopefully this is somehow related to the power relay board.
Also I noticed the stove is direct wired with three wires: two hot and a bare copper ground (black is hot, white is hot, no red wire, copper is connected to green wire). There is no neutral wire on the circuit. From what I have read this is not up to code currently, but the stove is at least 10 years old so maybe it was okay when it was installed? I just wonder not having the fourth wire could have lead to the power relay board going out prematurely?



Cypher,

The oven light does get the 120 VAC from the relay board,
So yes, the relay board circuit could be the reason the light is out, but there is also a door switch,in the circuit, you may want to check,

Disconnect the P5 wire harness from the relay board. on the harness wires, with your meter test across No. 2(brown) and No. 3(gray) wires, with the plunger out(door open) there should be a closed(infinite)circuit, with the plunger in (door closed) there should be an open(no resistance)circuit.

As for the wiring to the unit, that's a common occurrence, especially in older homes, as long as you have the power legs(L1 & L2)attached to the outside terminals, and the Neutral leg(wht) is attached to the ground, You'll be OK. Of course, somewhere down the line you'll probably have to have the wiring updated, But , No, at this point I seriously doubt if that was the cause of the relay board failure.

:) :) :)
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ccypher  
#5 Posted : Wednesday, February 16, 2011 12:41:13 PM(UTC)
ccypher

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The new circuit board arrived today, and installation was really easy. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any change. Still no power from the red wire coming off the board, but there is power on the other wire going to the bake element. The right light is also still out, but the door switch does appear to be working when I test the brown and gray wires. The red wire coming off the board does have continuity so I don't think there is a break in it. Any other ideas???
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Joe / APP Team  
#6 Posted : Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:19:25 AM(UTC)
Joe / APP Team

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Originally Posted by: ccypher Go to Quoted Post
The new circuit board arrived today, and installation was really easy. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be any change. Still no power from the red wire coming off the board, but there is power on the other wire going to the bake element. The right light is also still out, but the door switch does appear to be working when I test the brown and gray wires. The red wire coming off the board does have continuity so I don't think there is a break in it. Any other ideas???



Cypher,

We're going to do"LIVE", Be CAREFUL, voltage checks for the light, and L1 to the element, at the relay board

On connector P1 pin 1 should be a white wire(neutral), you'll use this as a common test point.

Check for 120 VAC from P1/1 and P6 black.
Check for 120 VAC from P1/1 and P7 black.

No voltage, Check for voltage on same contacts to chassis ground.
voltage to ground would indicate a bad neutral/ground.

Open the oven door and you should read 120 VAC from P1/1,wht and P1/4,gray if not.

Check for 120 VAC from P1/1 wht ,to P5/3 gray, no voltage indicates a broken wire from the door switch.

Check for 120 VAC from P1/1 to P5/2 brown, no voltage indicates a bad relay board.

For the Bake element,

Disconnect the Red wire on the P2 terminal on the board.
program a bake cycle and temperature,

Check for 120 VAC from P1/1, wht to the P2 terminal on the board,
If no voltage,
(you have a new relay board, it should be fine).

Check the Harness wires and connections between the two boards(P9 on the relay board and P1 on the display board, you may even want to take some rubbing alcohol and clean the pins on the board and connectors on the harness, and re check for voltage P1/1 to P2.

I honestly doubt, you have a voltage problem to the range, since everything else works,

But, We need to be sure, because the only thing left, would be a bad display board or touchpad assembly.
(there are no circuit or voltage tests for these components).


Part number: AP3086400
Part number: AP3086400


Part number: AP3137864
Part number: AP3137864


I'm almost at a lost,
:cool: :cool: :cool:
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ccypher  
#7 Posted : Thursday, February 17, 2011 7:02:26 PM(UTC)
ccypher

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Posts: 4
Originally Posted by: Joe / APP Team Go to Quoted Post
Cypher,

We're going to do"LIVE", Be CAREFUL, voltage checks for the light, and L1 to the element, at the relay board

On connector P1 pin 1 should be a white wire(neutral), you'll use this as a common test point.

Check for 120 VAC from P1/1 and P6 black.
Check for 120 VAC from P1/1 and P7 black.


I have no P7 wire. There is a terminal on the board, but no wire coming to it from the harness. P6 shows 122 volts

Originally Posted by: Joe / APP Team Go to Quoted Post
No voltage, Check for voltage on same contacts to chassis ground.
voltage to ground would indicate a bad neutral/ground.

Open the oven door and you should read 120 VAC from P1/1,wht and P1/4,gray if not.


Yes on the voltage between the white and the gray wire when the door is open.

Originally Posted by: Joe / APP Team Go to Quoted Post
Check for 120 VAC from P1/1 wht ,to P5/3 gray, no voltage indicates a broken wire from the door switch.

Check for 120 VAC from P1/1 to P5/2 brown, no voltage indicates a bad relay board.


I didn't come up with voltage on either of these, but since the P1/1 & P1/4 had voltage, this is ok???

Originally Posted by: Joe / APP Team Go to Quoted Post
For the Bake element,

Disconnect the Red wire on the P2 terminal on the board.
program a bake cycle and temperature,

Check for 120 VAC from P1/1, wht to the P2 terminal on the board,
If no voltage,
(you have a new relay board, it should be fine).


No voltage from P1/1 to P2. Also no voltage between the bare chassis and P2. Set for bake @ 350 and nothing while preheating or when the broil element had the top of the oven hot enough to think it was 350. This was on the old board. I put it back in when the new board didn't work since I will want to return the new board. I'm glad to try testing the new board the same way when I get off work tomorrow. Of course P4 & P8 (the inner and outer broil elements) both have 120VAC coming out in the beginning of the bake cycle.

Originally Posted by: Joe / APP Team Go to Quoted Post
Check the Harness wires and connections between the two boards(P9 on the relay board and P1 on the display board, you may even want to take some rubbing alcohol and clean the pins on the board and connectors on the harness, and re check for voltage P1/1 to P2.


I checked the connections on both ends, took connectors out on both ends and tried reseating it. Everything looks great, but still now power at P2. I'll try the rubbing alcohol bit tomorrow as well, but everything looked silver and shiny.

Originally Posted by: Joe / APP Team Go to Quoted Post
I honestly doubt, you have a voltage problem to the range, since everything else works,

But, We need to be sure, because the only thing left, would be a bad display board or touchpad assembly.
(there are no circuit or voltage tests for these components).


Part number: AP3086400
Part number: AP3086400


Part number: AP3137864
Part number: AP3137864


I'm almost at a lost,
:cool: :cool: :cool:

Thanks for your help so far, I'm willing to try whatever I can at this point, I really thought I'd be swapping out a baking element and have week-old cupcakes by now.
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Joe / APP Team  
#8 Posted : Friday, February 18, 2011 6:56:01 AM(UTC)
Joe / APP Team

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Originally Posted by: ccypher Go to Quoted Post
I have no P7 wire. There is a terminal on the board, but no wire coming to it from the harness. P6 shows 122 volts



Yes on the voltage between the white and the gray wire when the door is open.



I didn't come up with voltage on either of these, but since the P1/1 & P1/4 had voltage, this is ok???



No voltage from P1/1 to P2. Also no voltage between the bare chassis and P2. Set for bake @ 350 and nothing while preheating or when the broil element had the top of the oven hot enough to think it was 350. This was on the old board. I put it back in when the new board didn't work since I will want to return the new board. I'm glad to try testing the new board the same way when I get off work tomorrow. Of course P4 & P8 (the inner and outer broil elements) both have 120VAC coming out in the beginning of the bake cycle.



I checked the connections on both ends, took connectors out on both ends and tried reseating it. Everything looks great, but still now power at P2. I'll try the rubbing alcohol bit tomorrow as well, but everything looked silver and shiny.


Thanks for your help so far, I'm willing to try whatever I can at this point, I really thought I'd be swapping out a baking element and have week-old cupcakes by now.



Cypher,

Good news, and bad news,

Oven light,

You have power out to the oven light bulb, so you've got a bad gray or white wire at the receptacle, or a bad bulb. It's just like a normal light bulb, socket,

In the center of the socket base, is a tab, put one meter probe on the tab, then the other meter probe on the helix(screw threads) around the inside rim of the socket and check for 120 VAC no voltage, you'd have a broken gray or white wire from the relay board, or white wire to the neutral leg of the harness, if you have the voltage, problem is in the bulb or the bulb is not seating properly in the receptacle.

The bad news,

Bake element,

Since we still have no voltage out on P2 terminal, and you had the same problem with both boards, it's not likely that the relay board is bad.

Once you check and clean the board and ribbon connectors, if you stll have no 120 VAC out on the P2 terminal, you'd have to go to the display board or touchpad assembly, as I mentioned in my prevous post, there are no tests listed for the display board or touchpad.

:cool: :cool: :cool:

PS. Just because you can read resistance through a wire, doesn't mean it's good or working properly, If you have a frayed connection, a crimp in the wire,etc, it won't allow the voltage to flow properly"carry a load", and the component won't work. That's why we're doing voltage checks vs resistance checks.
:) :) :)
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vtdubu  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, April 12, 2011 9:31:18 PM(UTC)
vtdubu

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Posts: 12

[FONT="Verdana","sans-serif"]Hi:[/FONT]


[FONT="Verdana","sans-serif"]I own a Kitchen Aid Electric Range model #KERC507HWH3 and I am looking for assistance and instructions for replacing thehidden bake element.[/FONT]


[FONT="Verdana","sans-serif"]I would appreciate anything you could do to pleasehelp me concerning the problem I have, so I can at least attempt to try toresolve this myself.[/FONT]

[FONT="Verdana","sans-serif"][/FONT]
[FONT="Verdana","sans-serif"] Thank You Very Much[/FONT]


Originally Posted by: Joe / APP Team Go to Quoted Post
Cypher,

Great job of diagnosing and testing voltages and circuits, and your descriptions,

Made it pretty easy to help you,

Based on the post and, a wiring diagram, you have,

Your Red wire from the element up to the PRB(power relay board)is broken or damaged.

Or your bake relay on the board is damaged internally, and you'll need to replace the board,

Part number: AP3085947
Part number: AP3085947


Thanks for your help.

:) :) :)
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Joe / APP Team  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, April 13, 2011 5:49:38 AM(UTC)
Joe / APP Team

Rank: Advanced Member

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Posts: 5,222

Was thanked: 1 time(s) in 1 post(s)
Originally Posted by: vtdubu Go to Quoted Post

[FONT=Verdana","sans-serif]Hi:[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana","sans-serif]I own a Kitchen Aid Electric Range model #KERC507HWH3 and I am looking for assistance and instructions for replacing thehidden bake element.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana","sans-serif]I would appreciate anything you could do to pleasehelp me concerning the problem I have, so I can at least attempt to try toresolve this myself.[/FONT]


[FONT=Verdana","sans-serif]Thank You Very Much[/FONT]




VTDUBU,

As you requested,

Here are the instructions for accessing the hidden bake element on your unit.

To remove the hidden bake element:

a) Remove the right side panel .
b) Spread the insulation away from the front of the hidden bake element.

c) Disconnect the two wire connectors from the hidden bake element terminals.
d) Remove the element shield screw from the right end of the shield.

e) Pull the hidden bake element and its shield to the right and unhook the left and right tabs.
REMOVING A SIDE PANEL

1. Unplug range or disconnect power.
2. Pull the range away from the wall so that you can access the rear of the unit.
3. Remove the oven door and set it aside
4. Pull the storage drawer out as far as it will go.
5. Remove the two rear screws from the side panel.

6. From the rear of the unit, reach inside and remove the screw from the bottom of the side panel.
7. Slide the side panel forward and unhook the front edge, then tilt the top of the side panel out, and lift the panel from the unit.

NOTE: When reinstalling the side panel, set the bottom edge on the rail, hook the front edge at the top and bottom, and install the two rear screws; then install the bottom screw from

inside the rear of the unit.


Drop us a line, if you need more assistance.

:) :) :)

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