I have had it with Sears NOW

bbc3 · January 24, 2011, 2:44pm

Someone help please.

I have a CrapNmore dishwasher. I replaced one almost 2 years ago because the control panel went bad, and I did not want to take the chance in getting into a sorted mile long parts order scenario to rule out… NOW, the new dishwasher (less than 2 years old), is not working. All I did was reset the bastard to do some base cabinetry repairs.!!! Apparently they are sensitive, as in dont even look at it…

Symptoms, first wife said all she could get was normal cycle. I said no, you didn’t press that crappy little button pad correctly, and it worked right. Next day, NOTHING, no lights, no button response. So I am guessing another control panel is bad. One note is that she did point out that it no longer makes a “click” sound when unpluged and plugged back in?!!? For whatever thats worth.

I am savvy enough that if anyone here has any suggestions, and even inclusive of some soldering on the board, I am up for it. I just dont know where to start with all the circuitry. Any help greatly appreciated…

Joe_APP_Team · January 25, 2011, 4:10pm

[quote=bbc3;338582]Someone help please.

I have a CrapNmore dishwasher. I replaced one almost 2 years ago because the control panel went bad, and I did not want to take the chance in getting into a sorted mile long parts order scenario to rule out… NOW, the new dishwasher (less than 2 years old), is not working. All I did was reset the bastard to do some base cabinetry repairs.!!! Apparently they are sensitive, as in dont even look at it…

Symptoms, first wife said all she could get was normal cycle. I said no, you didn’t press that crappy little button pad correctly, and it worked right. Next day, NOTHING, no lights, no button response. So I am guessing another control panel is bad. One note is that she did point out that it no longer makes a “click” sound when unpluged and plugged back in?!!? For whatever thats worth.

I am savvy enough that if anyone here has any suggestions, and even inclusive of some soldering on the board, I am up for it. I just dont know where to start with all the circuitry. Any help greatly appreciated…:)[/quote]

BBC,

Here’s a couple of checks to make,

Check and make sure you have 120 VAC at the junction box on the lower frame, behind the lower kick plate / access panel.

You’ll need to access the control board and control panel, and other components.

visually inspect the thermal fuse, and control board, if you have a multi meter, check the fuse for a closed circuit,

AP3115186

Next, check the door switch assembly, switches and wiring for circuits,and damage.

AP3103581

I don’t think you’ll need a control board, but ,

Disconnect the touch pad ribbon from the control board, clean the insertion end of the ribbon tracer with alcohol, I do the same on the connector on the control board, be careful, once the ribbon is dry, make sure you insert it tightly into the board connector.

The control board would be the last resort,

If all checks are OK, replace the control panel key pad assembly, first,

AP6013464

bbc3 · January 27, 2011, 7:10am

Thanks for the most informative post. I will feedback when completed.

[quote=Joe / APP Team;339323]BBC,

Here’s a couple of checks to make,

Check and make sure you have 120 VAC at the junction box on the lower frame, behind the lower kick plate / access panel.

You’ll need to access the control board and control panel, and other components.

visually inspect the thermal fuse, and control board, if you have a multi meter, check the fuse for a closed circuit,

AP3115186

Next, check the door switch assembly, switches and wiring for circuits,and damage.

AP3103581

I don’t think you’ll need a control board, but ,

Disconnect the touch pad ribbon from the control board, clean the insertion end of the ribbon tracer with alcohol, I do the same on the connector on the control board, be careful, once the ribbon is dry, make sure you insert it tightly into the board connector.

The control board would be the last resort,

If all checks are OK, replace the control panel key pad assembly, first,

AP6013464

:)[/quote]

Joe_APP_Team · January 27, 2011, 4:13pm

BBC,

Great,
Will keep an eye out for your post.

bbc3 · January 27, 2011, 8:58pm

My digital ohm meter reads “1” when the leads are separated. I think I recall that to be infinite or open. When I apply the leads to the thermal fuse it remains at “1”. A quick test of the meter leads togther quickly “zeros it out”. So if my basic knowledge of fuses ( and I think you called it a fuse) stands, there is no circuit accross there, which means no signal or electricity can pass correctly. Am I on target.?? Or is this more a a resistor that I need to use more refined settings on my meter for.??

If The part needs replacing, can I jump around it in the meanwhile? Is it merely a capacitor, or resistor??

[quote=Joe / APP Team;340764]BBC,

Great,
Will keep an eye out for your post.

:)[/quote]

bbc3 · January 27, 2011, 9:10pm

Further I am thinking this a is thermal cutoff type breaker (as you probably said:D ) and trying to discern the identity of it. I am guessing by the number on the side it is(TF 098C) a 98 degree celc. temp rated.

So the question remains, is the basic open or closed circuit test valid. I apologize as the way you worded what to check for was unclear to my interpretation. I read another post where the guy said his meter went to 1.5 ( analoge assuming). So recalling, they close down from infinited in descending. His was ok, so it would have remained at high number i guess if not. Same as “1” on my digital one… Sorry so long just trying to get it…

Further, I think I am on target. I am also guessing I dont need to run it without the breaker in line as something caused it to overheat. Could be just a cumulative time bomb DESiGNED by Whirpool/sears.. I am pretty sure. I’ll be that was the damn problem with my last board. Too bad I was not here for that one. It was a gas range before and thats 2WICE you guys bailed me out..!!I cant tell you guys how helpful you have been.

Thanks a bunch Joe…!!!

[quote=bbc3;340856]My digital ohm meter reads “1” when the leads are separated. I think I recall that to be infinite or open. When I apply the leads to the thermal fuse it remains at “1”. A quick test of the meter leads togther quickly “zeros it out”. So if my basic knowledge of fuses ( and I think you called it a fuse) stands, there is no circuit accross there, which means no signal or electricity can pass correctly. Am I on target.?? Or is this more a a resistor that I need to use more refined settings on my meter for.??

If The part needs replacing, can I jump around it in the meanwhile? Is it merely a capacitor, or resistor??[/quote]

Joe_APP_Team · January 27, 2011, 10:31pm

[quote=bbc3;340862]Further I am thinking this a is thermal cutoff type breaker (as you probably said:D ) and trying to discern the identity of it. I am guessing by the number on the side it is(TF 098C) a 98 degree celc. temp rated.

So the question remains, is the basic open or closed circuit test valid. I apologize as the way you worded what to check for was unclear to my interpretation. I read another post where the guy said his meter went to 1.5 ( analoge assuming). So recalling, they close down from infinited in descending. His was ok, so it would have remained at high number i guess if not. Same as “1” on my digital one… Sorry so long just trying to get it…

Further, I think I am on target. I am also guessing I dont need to run it without the breaker in line as something caused it to overheat. Could be just a cumulative time bomb DESiGNED by Whirpool/sears.. I am pretty sure. I’ll be that was the damn problem with my last board. Too bad I was not here for that one. It was a gas range before and thats 2WICE you guys bailed me out..!!I cant tell you guys how helpful you have been.

Thanks a bunch Joe…!!![/quote]

BBC,

Not only are you on target, it’s a Bullseye.

As for bypassing the fuse,

It is a “safety” device, it can be done for testing purposes, but that should be the limit. But you decide, safety or convenience.

Remeber,

Check and make sure all the wire connections are tight,especially at the junction box, and the new fuse.

You have a 3 prong, polarized, grounded outlet, with at least 105 VAC when the dishwasher is running, and a 3 prong power cord.

Thanks,

bbc3 · January 28, 2011, 4:14am

So now I am gonna give back a little. The repairs went well but I have a few notes of advice to offer…

When dealling with a disassembled dishwasher, DONT screw the door opening lever in prior to putting on the inside wall panel (water side). BECAUSE, when you let it spring/slam shut, just as you are figuring out that the handle mounts underneath the inside plastic panel (nice test), the metal mechanism will go in too far locking the door closed creating a puzzle box with no entry:eek: ..

Second, if you are a crafty one and try to replace the temperature breaker yourself, DONT SOLDER IT. Its temperature sensitive… DUH. Actually I did not make that mistake thanks to the electronics shop owner… It comes with 2 aluminum sleeves for crimping. At any rate, the 10$ part (available here)may be worth the order if you can wait…

It works great so thanks again. What really disturbs me is that I have no doubt in my mind that this is what was wrong with my last model, and this is by design. So essentially the auto parts war of the 70s is reborn by WHIRLPOOL themselves. AND I bought a dishwasher FOR NOTHING last time… But not again. Thanks/.

[quote=Joe / APP Team;340905]BBC,

Not only are you on target, it’s a Bullseye.

As for bypassing the fuse,

It is a “safety” device, it can be done for testing purposes, but that should be the limit. But you decide, safety or convenience.

Remeber,

Check and make sure all the wire connections are tight,especially at the junction box, and the new fuse.

You have a 3 prong, polarized, grounded outlet, with at least 105 VAC when the dishwasher is running, and a 3 prong power cord.

Thanks,

:)[/quote]

Joe_APP_Team · January 28, 2011, 3:06pm

[quote=bbc3;341110]So now I am gonna give back a little. The repairs went well but I have a few notes of advice to offer…

When dealling with a disassembled dishwasher, DONT screw the door opening lever in prior to putting on the inside wall panel (water side). BECAUSE, when you let it spring/slam shut, just as you are figuring out that the handle mounts underneath the inside plastic panel (nice test), the metal mechanism will go in too far locking the door closed creating a puzzle box with no entry:eek: ..

Second, if you are a crafty one and try to replace the temperature breaker yourself, DONT SOLDER IT. Its temperature sensitive… DUH. Actually I did not make that mistake thanks to the electronics shop owner… It comes with 2 aluminum sleeves for crimping. At any rate, the 10$ part (available here)may be worth the order if you can wait…

It works great so thanks again. What really disturbs me is that I have no doubt in my mind that this is what was wrong with my last model, and this is by design. So essentially the auto parts war of the 70s is reborn by WHIRLPOOL themselves. AND I bought a dishwasher FOR NOTHING last time… But not again. Thanks/.[/quote]

BBC,

Thanks for the update, and your observation information.

Great job,

We’re happy that you’re happy,

Contact APP Repair Forum anytime, there’s always someone here who can help.

bbc3 · February 27, 2011, 9:46pm

Hello all,

Hope all is well with everyone. Seems my problems are not so easily resolved. The thermal fuse has blown 3 times now since I resolved the problem at the time of the last post here. So the issue seems to be, what is causing the thermal fuse to blow?

(1) I dont think there are any dwelling/house electrical issues contributing. I am getting about 118volts A/C at the outlet. One note is that it is an outlet on the same house breaker with other outlets in line. I believe the vacuum cleaner may even be run from time to time in this circuit. Was not thinking that was related though, as this is a “thermal” fuse.

(2) I have been using the “sani-rinse” which I believe heats the water pretty good in an extended rinse cylce. I am going to try to stop using that cycle and see if it helps. But really, shouldn’t I be able to use it? So is it a programming problem on the main board chip??

Possible solutions: I was thinking maybe slightly insulate the thermal fuse to give some buffer. Or even get a fuse with a higher temp. This one is 90 Celcius, which I believe converts to 210 degrees F, or right below boiling. So perhaps get the next one up? Seems like while it would allow for too much heat potentially, it would still shut it down prior to total meltdown?!?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Joe?

Thanks in advance.

Joe_APP_Team · February 28, 2011, 8:04pm

[quote=bbc3;364912]Hello all,

Hope all is well with everyone. Seems my problems are not so easily resolved. The thermal fuse has blown 3 times now since I resolved the problem at the time of the last post here. So the issue seems to be, what is causing the thermal fuse to blow?

(1) I dont think there are any dwelling/house electrical issues contributing. I am getting about 118volts A/C at the outlet. One note is that it is an outlet on the same house breaker with other outlets in line. I believe the vacuum cleaner may even be run from time to time in this circuit. Was not thinking that was related though, as this is a “thermal” fuse.

(2) I have been using the “sani-rinse” which I believe heats the water pretty good in an extended rinse cylce. I am going to try to stop using that cycle and see if it helps. But really, shouldn’t I be able to use it? So is it a programming problem on the main board chip??

Possible solutions: I was thinking maybe slightly insulate the thermal fuse to give some buffer. Or even get a fuse with a higher temp. This one is 90 Celcius, which I believe converts to 210 degrees F, or right below boiling. So perhaps get the next one up? Seems like while it would allow for too much heat potentially, it would still shut it down prior to total meltdown?!?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated. Joe?

Thanks in advance.[/quote]

BBc,

I’m wanderring, myself.

You’re sure you got all the wires connected and the connections are tight, correct ?

And you did use the harness that came with the fuse, correct ?

I"m sure you’ ve checked for proper polarity at the junction box, on the frame,

You’re pretty close to target on your temperatures,
Sani Rinse will heat the water to 155 dgrs.
High limit thermostat is rated at 180 dgrs.
The thermal fuse is rated at 195 dgrs.
(give a 10% “fudge factor” either way, and you’d still be in factory specs).

You should probably check the resistance on your heater element.

10 to 30 ohms resitsnce at room temperature, element cold.
in the dry cycle, with the element dry and on, you should read approximately 25 ohms after th element is on for a while.

The 118 VAC, is in a proper range, as long as the motor is running or the heater is on.

With the heater on and the motor running(sani rinse cycle) at 118 VAC, you should be drawing 5.5 to 6.5 amps. You should also check the voltage at the same time.

I can only think of a couple of possibilities,

Possibly, a sticky thermostat, weak thermistor or a low voltage problem, causing a higher than proper amperage draw.

For safety sake, don’t insulate the thermal fuse, or run the unit without it, other than to test the unit, There is a great possibility of a fire hazard.

bbc3 · February 28, 2011, 11:29pm

When you say polarity at the box, you are talking black to black, and white to white where the cord to the wall is capped in, right. The little metal box under the front right that houses the wires connecting to the power supply I am assuming???

Funny though I am not sure there is not a dwelling issue here. It seems like once I was changing a hanging light and I had the switch off, the black was def cold, but then I got lit up by the common line (white), but mildly it seemed. So now I am really wondering where to even start… as I wonder if there is a whole house issue somewhere. It is an early sixties home… I am not so sure that one of the runs has not been reversed somewhere in the attic or underneath. I DO KNOW that all the lines in the breaker box are correct as I did replace that and have it certified… But this does not rule out a swap somewhere at a modified juction someone may have done at some time… Dont know just thinking aloud. It may even require something being plugged in or energized somewhere to create the conditions. It was just too much of a mystery so I did not pursue it. I really dont think its the issue.

Can I even rule out. I can remember if I can even see poles in terms of A/C, white/black, etc…

[quote=Joe / APP Team;365908]BBc,