Customer Support 7 days a week

Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages12>
New Topic Post Reply
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
CNR  
#1 Posted : Monday, December 14, 2009 11:07:25 AM(UTC)
Quote
CNR

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/7/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10

Hello,

I have a problem with the following gently-used (maybe 1 load/wk) washing machine :

Kenmore 1999 Front load washer (Frigidair) Model #417.29042992

The other day with a normal load in it started banging terribly during the tumble cycle. It became violent and the machine even jumped off the floor! Heres the sequence of events :

- Reading online, was convinced the drum spider arm had deteriorated since that seems to be common.
- Dismantled entire machine to find spider arm INTACT, although dirty and caked w/stuff, some deterioration. Cleaned it.
- Springs and shocks are all OK
- Figured it must have been a terribly unblanced load to cause the jumping.
- Put machine back together.

- Now it does not ever final SPIN.
- It starts spinning like it wants to do fast spin, but shuts down before getting up to speed.
- Tumble cycle (both directions) works, although the tub assembly really moves a lot.
- Since I'm not used to seeing the washer operate with the top off, maybe this is normal??

- Tested motor windings according to spec sheet - all OK
- Checked/cleaned drain boot - no blockages.
- Checked door lock switch. Wax motor appears broken and does nothing when powered.
- Bent the wax (auxiliary) contacts inside lock assembly to 'fool' the machine into thinking the wax motor works
- Still NO SPIN cycle.

I think it might be the speed control board, but want to KNOW for sure before spending the $. I have a DIAGNOSTIC STRIP CIRCUITS sheet from inside the machine which does have a section "If no motor rotation in low/fast spin", but I cant figure out how to use it.

Can anyone help? How can I test the speed control or might it be something else? Is there any 'switch' or 'fuse' that might have gotten triggered from the violent spinning that disabled the fast spin?

Help!

Thanks, CJ
Sponsor
See inside of your appliance - diagrams and part photos for virtually every model.

powered by AppliancePartsPros.com
 
sidfink43  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, December 15, 2009 3:41:24 PM(UTC)
Quote
sidfink43

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Senior Expert
Joined: 3/29/2009(UTC)
Posts: 11,699

This service manual will show you how to check voltage to the speed control board. It is not a perfect test, but it will increase the probability that replacing the board will fix your problem.

It is not likely the vibration would have harmed your board, but boards do not like heat, moisture or movement, all of which is present in a washer so it is possible that did cause your problem.

I am still concerned about your movement, so use the service manual to recheck everything before you put money into a board.

http://frigidaireservicetips.co..._TumbleActionWashers.pdf
CNR  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 9:02:28 AM(UTC)
Quote
CNR

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/7/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10

Thanks much for the reply!

Unfortunately, while that manual is very CLOSE to what my machine looks like, the important part is different! Page 50 describes the test I need to do (tumble/no spin) but the picture on page 46 of the speed control board is not what I have.

My speed control board has 9 pin connector and a 4 pin connector, not 10/6, so I cant do any of those tests. Here is the pins I have, top down :

1 - yel/wh
2 - yel
3 - empty
4 - blu
5 - pink/blk
6 - wh/red
7 - brown
8 - purple
9 - empty

4-pin connector

1 - yel/blk
2 - blu/wh
3 - tan/blk
4 - wh

Do you have another manual or know how I can perform these tests with the wiring I have?

Thanks again...
sidfink43  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:20:05 AM(UTC)
Quote
sidfink43

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Senior Expert
Joined: 3/29/2009(UTC)
Posts: 11,699

Well, that is unexpected.

Does your model have a speed switch selector? If not, that is probably the explanation as the service manual is set up for models with a speed switch selector, and without one your speed control board may be designed differently.

What you are trying to do is to see if you have 120v coming from the Pull On switch through the door switch to the Speed Control Board and then over to the motor. The Schematic in the manual does not have wire colors, but see if the Tech Notes that should be inside the lower front service panel do have a good wiring diagram. They may even give you the correct tests for your board and motor.

If the tech notes do not help, trace out the wiring so that you can get the wire that is carrying the L1 current to the Speed Control board, and then check the voltage on it where it comes in to the 4 pin connector to the 9 pin connector where it goes out to the motor. I suspect the white wire coming in to the 4 pin connector is the correct one, the others should be coming from the light indicators. I would like to think that the 9 pin connector is the same as the 10 pin.

The test is that if you have 120v going to the Speed Control board when the machine is supposed to spin (make sure the door is closed) and the machine does not spin the Speed Control board is likely the problem.

Hope this helps.
CNR  
#5 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 5:12:30 AM(UTC)
Quote
CNR

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/7/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10

Actually, the way this is going, having different board connectors IS EXPECTED! :(

I have a speed selector switch that is NORMAL - FAST. Pg 9 of the manual, in the middle column, shows what I have.

Yes, the Tech sheet does have wire colors and I'll try to trace it down. It also has a whole sequence of tests, but that is for the motor not running at all, which my motor does. It'll take a while to go through this, and its not like this is a busy time of year or anything... :p

I might not get to this before Christmas, but will post back when I can. Thanks for your help.

Attached is a pic of the "Diagnostic Strip Circuits". I'm not exactly sure how to use it, but I'll see what I can do.
CNR  
#6 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 6:45:37 AM(UTC)
Quote
CNR

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/7/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10

Hmm... Attachment didnt work. Trying again.
CNR attached the following image(s):
aPC170009.jpg
sidfink43  
#7 Posted : Thursday, December 17, 2009 1:12:09 PM(UTC)
Quote
sidfink43

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Senior Expert
Joined: 3/29/2009(UTC)
Posts: 11,699

Ok good. Glad you found the tech notes, and let us know what you find out when you have time to check it out.

Yeah, things are slightly busy. Happy Holiday season to you.
CNR  
#8 Posted : Friday, December 18, 2009 5:24:19 AM(UTC)
Quote
CNR

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/7/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10

Well, I ended up having some time last night and did some more checking... I couldnt get much out of the 'Motor Movement" section of this Tech Sheet:

http://www.applianceaid.com/pic...rontloadermotorstuff.jpg

My motor DOES tumble, and the directions arent clear (step 3) as to using the disconnected CABLE to do the tests or using the socket on the board? My results :

Step 4 - I got 23V which makes no sense. I was also getting AC voltage readings on my meter when only 1 lead was connected and the other lead in the air. How is that possible?

Step 5 - 120V
Step 6 - 2.4 ohms

I double checked the motor windings and everything was perfect :

Stator full C8.2 - C8.3 ==> 0.9 ohms
Armature C8.5 - C8.5 ==> 1.3 ohms
TachoGen C8.6 - C8.7 ==> 14.6 ohms
Motor Thermal C2.1 - C2.2 ==> 0.1 ohm
Stator tapped C8.1 - C8.3 ==> 0.3 ohm

I assume this points to a good motor, although with one question : Would the Motor Thermal Protector be either 100% working or 100% bad? Meaning that since my motor tumbles (and has good ohmage (izzat a word?)) that the MTP cannot be the cause of my No-Fast-Spin problem? This is critical because when it tries to fast-spin it starts and then I hear a click on the speed control board that shuts the motor down, and I'm wondering if something is telling the board to shut the motor down, or the board is just bad and shutting it down on its own?

I ran a full 'short wash' cycle (no clothes), and confirmed that there is no S1+S1, S1, S2 or S3 spin. The motor only turns on/off in short bursts for the tumble action. I'd like to run some kind of test just to see the motor run fast for a while. Do you know of a way to 'jump' the motor like that? Heck I'd even put in a fast-spin button that I have to press by hand as this diagnosing is getting tiresome!

Thanks again for your help, and Happy Holidays to you...

CNR

PS - Oh, one good thing that I did is disconnect that OBNOXIOUS end-of-cycle buzzer! That thing is LOUD and scares the cat and my kids! Considering the final spin sounds like an airplane taking off from 3 houses away, its pretty obvious that the wash is done when the plane 'lands', so the buzzer is pretty much redundant and useless.
sidfink43  
#9 Posted : Friday, December 18, 2009 8:08:52 AM(UTC)
Quote
sidfink43

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Senior Expert
Joined: 3/29/2009(UTC)
Posts: 11,699

Well, you might want to borrow a meter from a friend or neighbor and re check things. Not sure how your meter is registering volts with a one leg connection, induction somehow?

Other than that it sounds like power is getting to the motor control board, which would indicate the board itself is the problem. It is possible your MTP is the cause, but unlikely. I think if your tests with another meter confirm your results you should replace the board.

Glad you got the buzzer fixed, we have cats but have not had the buzzer problem with them (other problems though)

Good luck, hope that works out and let us know. Seems like a lot of folks are following this post.
CNR  
#10 Posted : Thursday, February 4, 2010 7:27:58 AM(UTC)
Quote
CNR

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 12/7/2009(UTC)
Posts: 10

fdsafdsafdsafdsfdsafdafdsHi all,

OK, does anyone have a sledge hammer I can borrow?? :mad:

Well the holidays got in the way of my repair, so I ordered a Speed Control board on 12/28. After hearing "its backordered", "its on this truck and we'll send it Monday", "it wasnt on that truck, we dont know when its coming in", I FINALLY got the board yesterday. And, of course, I put it in and I STILL HAVE NO FAST SPIN!

With the laundry piling up I still need some help. Does anyone know what wires I can connect directly to my motor to see it if CAN do a fast spin? I need to prove that the $^$(%&$*() motor actually can do it before trying something else. During the cycle it seems like it TRIES to start the fast spin - it comes on and winds up in speed, and then it shuts down.

If the motor CAN spin fast, then what else could it be? The timer board? I mentioned before my disabling of the wax motor :

- Bent the wax (auxiliary) contacts inside lock assembly to 'fool' the machine into thinking the wax motor works

Does that seem like it should work?

Any other ideas or help would be appreciated.
Thanks,

CNR
Quick Reply Show Quick Reply
Users browsing this topic
2 Pages12>
New Topic Post Reply
Forum Jump  
You can post new topics in this forum.
You can reply to topics in this forum.
You can delete your posts in this forum.
You can edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You can vote in polls in this forum.