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Timer issues on older KitchenAid (Whirlpool direct drive)

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This is really starting to irritate me. worked fine up until a week ago. Then, decided to stop agitating. fiddling

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Old 04-01-2013, 05:10 PM
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Default Timer issues on older KitchenAid (Whirlpool direct drive)
Model Number: KAWS750GQ1   Brand: Kitchen Aid   Age: More than 10 years   

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This is really starting to irritate me. worked fine up until a week ago. Then, decided to stop agitating. fiddling with the timer knob, if we found the right spot we could at least get it to drain and maybe spin. since this machine had been through a couple of timers in its life, we replaced it and the machine worked for about a week. Then it started doing the same thing. It'll fill with water to the correct level then just sit there doing nothing while the timer advances normally. I checked the terminals at the motor, the motor start switch, and the capacitor, and when it's supposed to be agitating or spinning, there's no voltage. When we can get the motor to run in drain/spin, voltages are normal. this evening, I did some probing around. as of right now:

1) I have the lid switch jumpered
2) I have the water level switch jumpered from Violet to Tan so the timer runs
3) machine will not agitate or spin if I try to start it in those regions of the dial
4) The machine WILL run if I find the right spot to set the timer knob for draining after the rinse cycle (basket spins too.)
5) when it's spinning, it draws about 550 watts from the outlet (checked with a Kill-a-watt meter) which sounds about normal, so it doesn't seem to be dragging or binding.
6) I've visually inspected the wiring and connectors, I don't see any wiring breaks. The terminal pins in the connectors going to the timer don't seem to be corroded nor do they look like they're spreading and losing contact. Also "wiggling" the connectors while the machine was supposed to be agitating didn't do anything.

I could accept that the new timer might be defective, but it seems strange that it would fail in the same manner as the one it replaced. I don't want to keep throwing parts at a machine as old as this, nor do I want to just throw another timer on it if it'll only last a week. is there anything that might be able to "kill" one of these timers? It's one of the older-style ones with the plastic cam wheel and a bunch of brass leaf switches (like this one.

thank you


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-01-2013, 06:10 PM
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You may have a faulty speed switch (fabric select). Have you tried different speeds? On some of these washers, drain mode bypasses this switch. I don't have the diagram and timing chart for your model. If you could post a clear readable photo of each, it would help. You can try bypassing the speed switch. For spin mode, disconnect the red/blu wire and the blu wire and jump them together. For agitate, jump yel/blu to blu.

BTW, the newer timers also use the plastic cam drum and brass contact leaf springs but now have a plastic housing instead of metal.

Eric

Last edited by fairbank56 : 04-01-2013 at 06:14 PM.
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairbank56 View Post
You may have a faulty speed switch (fabric select). Have you tried different speeds?
yes, sort of. when I say "sort of," I mean I flipped that switch between its settings while the timer was running. Now I'm questioning whether the timer would respect any changes to the speed switch settings while it was already running.

Quote:
I don't have the diagram and timing chart for your model. If you could post a clear readable photo of each, it would help. You can try bypassing the speed switch. For spin mode, disconnect the red/blu wire and the blu wire and jump them together. For agitate, jump yel/blu to blu.
I'll try that. if it doesn't work, I'll get the best pics I can of the diagrams and post.

Quote:
BTW, the newer timers also use the plastic cam drum and brass contact leaf springs but now have a plastic housing instead of metal.

Eric
*shrug* I have an "Estate by Whirlpool" washer which is pretty much the same except the timer housing looks nothing like the one I linked. guilty of assuming too much, I guess
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Old 04-01-2013, 06:57 PM
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Doesn't matter if the timer is already running when changing speeds. When jumping the wires, the timer must be set to spin mode for spin and agitate mode for agitate. Power to the motor is still through the timer, we are just bypassing the speed select switch. Obviously, unplug the washer before jumping the wires.

Eric
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Old 04-02-2013, 04:42 PM
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thank you for your help so far. the wire colors seem different than what you mentioned, so here are the diagrams you asked about. They're big.

http://home.comcast.net/~jz78817/stuff/diagram.jpg

http://home.comcast.net/~jz78817/stuff/timing.jpg
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:31 PM
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Yes, much different than the diagram I was using. That's why we need the specific diagram. They are all "similar" but different nonetheless. The speed switch is bypassed in drain mode and in spin mode it is initially bypassed through the motor switch which means the motor would continuously switch on/off when attempting to spin if the speed switch was bad and I assume that's not happening. With the washer in spin mode and the lid switch properly bypassed, you should have 120vac between the orange and white wires at the motor. If you do and the motor isn't trying to run, the motor switch is faulty. If you don't , then either the timer is faulty or there is a wiring/connection problem. Are you able to read and interpret the timer chart and wiring diagram or is that over your head? I can try to assist if it doesn't make sense to you.

Eric
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:57 PM
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The washer should run in first part of spin mode (cotton cycle) which is medium speed which bypasses the speed select switch, so I don't think it's the speed select switch. The diagram below shows you the current path in the first part of spin mode. Yellow is the path when it first starts. After the motor gets going the centrifugal switch changes the path to pink and then when it switches to high speed spin the path is green which is through the speed select switch. This will give you an idea what to look for. You can just set it to spin mode with the timer switch on and washer unplugged if you want to make continuity checks versus checking live line voltages.

Eric

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Old 04-02-2013, 06:51 PM
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it's way over my head. I'm a mechanical engineer, I have some basic understanding of circuit diagrams but at this point I'm totally lost. I don't understand why this would stop working, then after replacing the timer it would work for maybe four loads, and then fail in the exact same way. and thanks to my ham-fisted-ness, I broke the fabric selector switch; so after replacing the broken parts and calling someone out to fix the damn thing, those costs would probably be more than half of buying a new washer.

Last edited by jz78817 : 04-02-2013 at 06:55 PM.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:33 PM
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Well, you really need to make some voltage checks or continuity checks to find the problem or your just blindly replacing parts. If it's really way over your head, you need somebody with some experience at it to help you troubleshoot the problem. It's not unheard of to get another bad timer but it could be the motor switch or a wiring/connection problem. Electrical troubleshooting is a piece of cake for me but even many experienced appliance tech's are not very good at it. It's worth fixing this washer though, you don't want one of the new pieces of junk they are selling nowadays.

Eric
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