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First of all, thanks to all you seasoned guys that offer your help! Here's what I know: All LEDs work

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Old 01-31-2013, 03:59 PM
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Question No agitate or spin, pump OK
Model Number: WLSE3150A0WW   Brand: GE   Age: More than 10 years   

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First of all, thanks to all you seasoned guys that offer your help!

Here's what I know: All LEDs work in the Field Service Mode.
In position 2, "Error code-slow pump" is indicated.
Positions 5, 6 & 8 all fail to get the motor going, all else seems to be fine.

I checked for voltage in the starting coil of the motor, and found none while in Field Service Mode positions 5, 6, & 8. I did this by using a insulation piercing probe on the red wire and a known ground.

Motor:
Thermodisc, M1=>M2: 0.4 ohms
Start windings, M3=>M7: 1.4 ohms
Main windings, M1 or M2 =>M5 or M6: 4.2 ohms
White connector plastic at M1 is scorched, but the ohm reading through the in-place connector is the same as when checked directly on the motor.

What is the "slow pump" error? The pump does it's thing just fine. Maybe a bad relay on the brain board?

Thanks again!


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Old 01-31-2013, 04:30 PM
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The slow pump error is set if it takes longer than 3 minutes to pump the water out. The control board monitors current in the pump wiring and uses the measurement to determine if it's pumping water or air. Clear the error and see if it returns, could just be a fluke.

The red wire is only going to have voltage with respect to ground on it in spin mode. In agitate mode, the red wire is neutral and the vio/wht wire is hot (L1). The polarity of the power to the start winding is reversed to change direction of the motor which determines agitate or spin.

You sure you got those readings correct? Start winding should be about 4 ohms, the high speed winding should be about 1.4 ohms. Can't check the low speed winding unless you remove the motor and manually engage the switch or place probe directly on winding through the vent hole on rear of motor.

Ohm readings can be misleading. There could be just one strand of a multistrand wire hanging on which will give a good continuity reading but as soon as you throw a motor load on it, there will be a huge voltage drop and the motor ain't gonna work.

When you set it to agitate/spin in service mode, does the motor hum at all?

Eric

Last edited by fairbank56 : 01-31-2013 at 04:52 PM.
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Old 01-31-2013, 07:40 PM
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Clear the error and see if it returns, could just be a fluke.

How? I think I read somewhere here about raising the lid a dozen times, but that didn't clear the error.
The red wire is only going to have voltage with respect to ground on it in spin mode. In agitate mode, the red wire is neutral and the vio/wht wire is hot (L1). The polarity of the power to the start winding is reversed to change direction of the motor which determines agitate or spin.
Thanks for explaining that! I was wondering how the motor reversed... But there is no voltage in the Violet/white wire either, in either fast or slow agitate.

I double checked the ohm readings and you are right- I swapped the values when I first posted. In addition, I verified infinity between all motor terminals & the motor frame. But I agree, the motor could still be flakey. I suspected the motor first off because it gave trouble years ago in the switch, so I cleaned the contacts of the switch up this time around and made sure the spring loaded cut-out moved freely. During all that I may have dislodged some insulation. Motor has no hum at all(nor did it before I opened it up, which made me think the contacts were burnt); I do hear clicking in the control panel a second or two after choosing test position 5,6 or 8.

Again thanks for taking the time to provide such detailed explanations & suggestions.

Last edited by JavaG66 : 01-31-2013 at 07:45 PM. Reason: to correct error about motor ohms
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:43 PM
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To clear the error code, while in error check mode, press the start button. This will clear all codes. The lid close routine is for the GE hydrowave models that use a motor/inverter. Yours is the older T model design.

You really shouldn't be reading any resistance across the thermal overload. It should be zero ohms (0.00) Check your meter. When set to read ohms, touch the meter leads together, does it read 0.00? If so, you should read the same across the overload. Make sure the terminals on the motor jack are clean so your meter probes are making good connection. The fact that the motor cable plug is scorched at the neutral wire terminal and your getting this 0.4 ohms across the overload is suspicious.

Rather than using ground for reference when making voltage measurements, use neutral. Put it in agitate or spin and check for 120vac across the wht/red and blu wires as well as across the vio/wht and red wires. If your still getting nothing, open the control panel and with the washer off, check for 120vac across the yellow and red/wht wires of the 6 pin plug.

Eric
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:37 AM
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"To clear the error code, while in error check mode, press the start button. This will clear all codes." Simple enough; I like simple.

"Yours is the older T model design." As in those black Ford cars they used to drive when I was a boy?

"You really shouldn't be reading any resistance across the thermal overload. It should be zero ohms (0.00) Check your meter. When set to read ohms, touch the meter leads together, does it read 0.00?"
I checked the meter & re-read terminals M1 & M2: 0.00 - 0.01 ohms

"Put it in agitate or spin and check for 120vac across the wht/red and blu wires as well as across the vio/wht and red wires. "
For the main & start windings, respectively,
Test position 5: 9.7v & 1.1v
Test position 6: 14.7v & 2.7v
Test position 8 16.5v & 0.5v
All with the the connector removed from the motor. Is the brain smart enough to know that and cut off normal voltages?

"check for 120vac across the yellow and red/wht wires of the 6 pin plug."
Backprobing the connector;
TP5: 54.0v
TP6: 57.0v
TP8: 60.0v
Red/White =>gnd: 123v

Should I bench test the motor with 120v to see if overheating might have fried the board? Maybe neutral to Vio/W & White/R and Hot to Red & Blue?

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Old 02-01-2013, 07:17 AM
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You should do the checks with the motor connected. I don't have a schematic for the control board so I don't know if the two neutral feeds to the two control board connectors are connected within the board circuitry. If they are not, with the motor disconnected, you won't have a neutral at the 6-pin board connector (yellow wire). When you measured 123vac between red/blk and gnd, where were you picking up the ground? What about between red/blk and yellow (with motor connected)?

Yes, I would bench test the motor. Size .187 female quick disconnect terminals will fit the motor connector pins nicely. Yes, your correct on the connections.

The "T" model refers to the transmission. The newer hydrowave models do not have a transmission.

Eric

Last edited by fairbank56 : 02-01-2013 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 09:24 AM
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"You should do the checks with the motor connected."
Revised readings, motor connected:
For the main & start windings, respectively,
Test position 5: 9.7v & 1.1v 27v & 3v
Test position 6: 14.7v & 2.7v 28v & 3.6v
Test position 8 16.5v & 0.5v 27v & 3v

"check for 120vac across the yellow and red/wht wires of the 6 pin plug."
Backprobing the connector, now with motor connector in place:
TP5: 54.0v 85.2v
TP6: 57.0v 85.3v
TP8: 60.0v 85.5v
Red/White =>gnd: 123v This was to the cabinet with the 6 pin connector pulled out. When connected to the PCB, it is 88v.
Red/W =>White/R on the 11 pin connector: 123v

Motor hot wired as above just hums, won't kick in. So we may be getting somewhere. If possible, I would like some assurance that the control board isn't shot as well. I don't mind replacing the motor OR the control board, but not both. As much as I like tinkering, the economics of it all must be considered. Based on the above, what is your opinion/ recommended path forward?
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Old 02-01-2013, 11:08 AM
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Was that "Red/W =>White/R on the 11 pin connector: 123v", while you were in TP5, 6, or 8?

Obviously, you are experiencing a large voltage drop at the motor. This could be on the control board, wiring connections, or a bad wire. The way to find out where is to do the following, with all connectors in place:

First, check voltage at wall socket with washer in TP6. Assume you have a duplex socket there.

Place one probe of your meter to neutral of the wall socket (wide blade) and note the reading with the other probe at the following points while in TP6. You can use an extension cord and place the receptacle end of it near where your going to make the measurements to make it easier.

1. red/blk wire of the 6 pin control board connector
2. blu wire of same connector
3. vio/wht wire of same connector
4. red/blk wire of the pump
5. blu wire at the motor
6. vio/wht wire at the motor.

Now place one probe at hot side of wall socket. Be careful, DO NOT touch the other meter probe tip, it will have full 120vac on it until you touch it to the neutral test points we are going to check. Note the reading at the following points while in TP6.

1. wht/red of motor
2. yel of motor
3. yel at 6 pin control board connector
4. wht/red at 11 pin control board connector

As you've probably figured out, this will narrow down where the voltage drop is occuring.

Just for the heck of it, with the motor connected with your test cable. Plug it in and spin the pulley by hand to see if it will start. Normally, if the main winding is ok but start winding circuit is bad, you can start it by hand.

Eric

Last edited by fairbank56 : 02-01-2013 at 11:14 AM.
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Old 02-01-2013, 12:46 PM
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I want to commend you on your concern for safety; I work at a site that preaches it till we are all sick of it. But it's a good thing not to get hurt. So continue offering you cautions in red and bold!

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairbank56 View Post
Was that "Red/W =>White/R on the 11 pin connector: 123v", while you were in TP5, 6, or 8?
While in TP6, those test points measure 124.1

while in TP6: Checks with neutral:
1. red/blk wire of the 6 pin control board connector 124.3v (I don't have a red/blk here, according to the schematic the red/blk turns into Red/White, so that is what the value reflects)
2. blu wire of same connector 28.6v
3. vio/wht wire of same connector 28.3v
4. red/blk wire of the pump 123.9v
5. blu wire at the motor 28.2v
6. vio/wht wire at the motor. 28.3v

Note the reading at the following points while in TP6. Checks with HOT:

1. wht/red of motor 124.0v
2. yel of motor 85.5v
3. yel at 6 pin control board connector 85.5v
4. wht/red at 11 pin control board connector 124.1v

Just for the heck of it, with the motor connected with your test cable. Plug it in and spin the pulley by hand to see if it will start. It would turn very slowly, barely fast enough to say it wasn't coasting from the hand start. It didn't take long for it to heat up and start smoking, so I didn't keep trying. The readings above were taken after I smoked the motor.

Eric

Last edited by JavaG66 : 02-01-2013 at 12:50 PM. Reason: Clarify sequence of readings
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Old 02-01-2013, 01:45 PM
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Ok, big voltage drop in neutral through motor. Now you see what I mean by resistance readings can be misleading. Motor is no good and there is no exact replacement for it. GE has a new type motor to replace that one. The new one doesn't have an integral switch and it has a totally different connector. The new motor comes with new cable harness that you splice into existing wire harness, a pre-wired relay, capacitor, crimp connectors and instructions. I would leave the motor out, cut the wht/red wire and yel wire from motor connector, splice them together, put washer back into TP6 and check voltages again across 6 pin control board connector. Check yel to blu and yel to vio/wht. If you have 120vac across each, the board is probably ok but can't say for sure because you don't have a normal load on it from a good motor. Power to the motor is done via relays on the control board. Sorry about the confusion between red/blk red/wht. My bad, I have the wiring diagram as well.

Eric

Last edited by fairbank56 : 02-01-2013 at 01:55 PM.
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