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Old 05-06-2009, 07:38 AM
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Default Washer will agitate but not spin/spin slowly
Model Number: RAX4233PQ0   Brand: Roper   Age: 1 - 5 years   

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Hi,

First of all, I want to say Hello, I'm new here and thank you for putting this site together.

Ok, so here's why I'm posting....I have a top-loading Roper RAX4233PQ0 about 5 years old.

About 3 or 4 months ago, we noticed a little bit (maybe less than a glassfull 6 or 8 ounces or so) of water on the floor...Cleaned it up, checked the hose for clogs leaks,etc. No signs of anything bad... Never saw water again and all was well. (Not sure if it is important or not, but thought I'd mention it)

A few weeks ago, we noticed that though the clothes were spinning, after the cycle ended- they were still pretty wet. The last week, this started happening this way more frequently, as if it was slowing down or just not spinning at all. So, that draws me here....


I did the 1" peek under the lid while running a load of wash. The washer is agitating fine. The washer fills and empties fine. However, I did notice that when on spin cycle it moved a lot slower than it should. I checked it again later and noticed that at times it wouldn't even spin (though you could hear the motor running).

I pulled off the agitator to ensure (we also have a 2 1/2 year old and 4 month old's "little" clothes) there was nothing obstructing movement.

I laid the washer down and noticed the transmission had a few drops of oil around it (Not sure if it is possibly the seal/gasket). I couldn't say exactly where because laying the washer down & gravity... While checking things out, I noticed one bolt on the transmission/gearcase to base was a little loose. Nothing looked out of the ordinary, though...(but what the hell do I know ordinary is supposed to look like?)

One more note: there doesn't seem to be any odd smell from the washer or any unusual sounds either.

From my readings of similar issues:drive block/basket, clutch, motor coupling, stuck brakes or transmission could all be related to the issue -- is this correct?

Wouldn't a bad motor coupler cause no agitation at all? If so, then I can rule that out. A bad lid switch would mean that we would get NO spin at all, but we do get little to no spin.

How can I troubleshoot to verify if it is basket, clutch or transmission?

My next setp is to check if the brakes are not fully released.

Any insight is appreciated.


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Old 05-06-2009, 09:28 AM
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Well, first of all thanks for posting a very complete description of your problem.

Your most probably problem is the clutch. You can visually inspect the drive block but your machine is a little to young to make that the major suspect.

You have to remove the transmission to fix the clutch anyway, so again, visually inspecting it and playing with it should allow you to rule it out.

Unless something obvious comes up I would replace the clutch, as it is an easy and inexpensive repair and the most likely culprit.

Good luck, and please post what you find and what you do.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:29 PM
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thanks for the quick response and information.
I didn't get the chance to pull the clutch and trans off yet.

However, I've still got the agitator out and am going to check out the rest tomorrow evening or sat...hopefully, tomorrow.

I take it the cabinet off is an essential for clutch & trans removal?
a
If I lay this down, on its back is the way to go?

Again, thanks much for the help. I'll keep you posted on my findings.
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Old 05-08-2009, 07:19 AM
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Yes, taking the cabinet off is the way to go. You will need to lay the machine on its back to take out the transmission but I strongly recommend that you do not do that until after you have removed the motor. The motor is very heavy and setting the machine on its back before you remove the motor could result in damage to your suspension springs.

Here is a video which shows you how to remove the cabinet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLPGs2UMUJc

Good luck and keep us posted.
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Old 05-08-2009, 08:30 PM
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Hi again...

Pulled of the cabinet, motor, trans & clutch- no sweat. Thanks for the tips.

For prosperity, I'll mention the motor coupling was fine. However, the clutch was pretty greasy and dirty. I've attached some pics for the above reason and for your review.... I noticed a bit of debris on top of the transmission as well. I imagine this is attributed to the brakes and dust.

Also, there was some was gear oil on the inside bottom (both sides) of the cabinet. It looks worse in the picture than it actually was.

Another note- while the cabinet is off, I bypassed the lid switch (the grey & white wires on my model) and put it on spin cycle...I noticed the clutch was spinning underneath.



Inside clutch band lining (the little white tabs) seemed fairly worn- not to mention that inside the main clutch (hub?) was a little scored as well...kinda reminds when brake rotors on a car need to be turned.

There is a larger washer that looks similar to the inside center of the clutch ("bowl-like" convex). It sits above the clutch retaining ring (the U shaped ring that locks just above the clutch into the shaft grooves on the trans)....I'm not too sure how I took it off..

so when I put everything back on...which side faces the brakes and which side faces the clutch?
From the parts break-out I found, it appears to be "the spin tube thrust washer"- however it isn't uniformly round..so no help there...

By looking at it it would seem that the smaller convex center (bulging outward) would rest facing the brakes...I dunno- maybe I'm missing the obvious?

One other item to note, not sure if it indicates anything, but the piece that comes out of the base of the transmission with the notches that the whole clutch rests was able to be slid up and down maybe a 1/2 inch to an inch. Not sure if that is normal for that part. (It is the in the first photo at the base of the trans shaft).

From what it looks like it would seem I should be looking into replacing the clutch first...Just like you advised!


Thoughts?

Thanks in advance, again..
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 01_debris_trans_top.jpg (43.4 KB, 217 views)
File Type: jpg 02_debris_cluth_inner.jpg (32.2 KB, 215 views)
File Type: jpg 03_debris_cluth_outer.jpg (39.3 KB, 216 views)
File Type: jpg 04_gearoil_inside_cabinet.jpg (37.0 KB, 215 views)

Last edited by sainthooligan : 05-09-2009 at 10:51 AM. Reason: info addition
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Old 05-09-2009, 04:24 PM
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Well, as usual your information is very complete, and your pictures are very revealing.

Unfortunately what they are revealing is that your washer is in the process of becoming deceased. It is pushing up daisies, it has bought the farm, it is joining the other washers in that great recycling yard in the sky. It is becoming a dead washer.

The oil/grease splattered inside your cabinet is a deathmark. While you could repair it, it is not worth the money it would take. Normally I would say this calls for a trip to Mr. Washer Store, but in your case since you obviously have the ability to tear down a machine and make repairs, I would advise you to purchase a used Kenmore/Whirlpool Direct Drive machine. In our area you can get a nice machine for about $125 to $175 and I imagine it is the same in your area.

If the seller will let you, you can run the machine with the cabinet off (just bypass the lid switch) and see if it is ok, but even if they do not let you do this you know what to look for and listen for.

Sorry about the bad news, but given your ability to maintain the Direct Drive type of machine I think you can buy a used one and have many, many years of good use.

Good luck, and let us know what you decide.
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Old 05-10-2009, 12:05 AM
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I wasn't failing to hope- maybe I was in a even in little bit of denial about the trans, even after seeing the severity of the oil under the cabinet ...

One of my favorite little nuggets is my "cost per use" ratio...we paid about 3 bills for it, used it for 5 years constant use + factor in the laundry mat alternative ...I think it was a well invested $60 a year... broken down to $5.00 a month ..about $1.25 a week for well over an average of 5 loads per week - that's about .25 cents a load! (out here a single load costs $1.25 to $1.75 depending where you go)... and then factor in the convenience of being at home, my wife or I washing "at-will" and not having to get two little ones ready to go out and about...
I'm satisfied with that- hey, I'm easy..

At any rate, my wife and I discussed fixing it and also buying a used one (and hopefully not go through this again for a while for a decent cost per use ratio)

Believe it or not,the timing was actually pretty good for all this though, we had recently been been talking about upgrading to something a little larger (our two little ones aren't getting any smaller and we plan on adding one more...) to something that we can "grow into" a bit and I know my wife had been looking at a couple she was interested in (both are Kenmore )

At then end of the day, I think we'll wind up buying something new and much larger (and not have to go that road again for some time, because I can work on these suckers now!)

I think I learned so much between this forum and google, about washers in the last week, I'm on a washing machine information high....When we go to buy - I'll be oozing so much washing machine confidence the salesperson will cower down and probably offer both their employee discount and their liver as an offering.
Okay- well maybe not so much... but I did learn enough to make me sick of washing machines for the time being

And finally, to make a long reply even longer....Again, I am very thankful for your insight and willingness to share knowledge, you all here are truly a blessing.

I appreciate your patience as well as your candor. And will definitely direct people this forum for both parts and information.

We will be adding you and your family in our prayers!

God bless!
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Old 05-10-2009, 06:35 AM
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Well, thanks for the nice replay. And thanks for sharing your analysis on your costs. I think you definitely got your value out of the machine.

One final advice I would give is for you to avoid any set of machines with electronic controls. Adding the Central Control Units to machines did four things.

1. They made the machnes more expensive
2. They made the machines more difficult to repair
3. They made the machines more expensive to repair

and finally, (yes this is rediculous)

4. They made it more likely the machines will need repair.

Anyway, good luck, and again, thanks for your detailed posts and for keeping us updated.
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Old 05-11-2009, 08:48 PM
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you need to replace the transmission and the clutch.
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Old 05-14-2009, 03:40 PM
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Yeah, sidfink43 helped with that diagnosis about a week ago.

However, boshman- thanks clarifying for future readers.

For the record --- ended up upgrading to a larger, new Kenmore- so I'm sure I'll be fine for a long while. And when the time comes, thanks to you all - I'll fix it.

Thanks again, all!

Last edited by sainthooligan : 05-14-2009 at 03:46 PM.
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