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coolpontiac@yahoo.com  
#1 Posted : Thursday, November 19, 2015 2:56:24 PM(UTC)
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coolpontiac@yahoo.com

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suddenly my ceramic stove top will not heat. the lights turn on but none fo the 4 burners will heat. it is a 220V appliance.

I flipped the breaker a couple times and also verified that other 220 V appliances are working. there are no fuses, switches etc as best i can tell by looking under the unit. its all sealed

what would make all FOUR burners not heat? Help!
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denman  
#2 Posted : Friday, November 20, 2015 3:39:35 AM(UTC)
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denman

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Here are your parts includes a wiring diagram.
Parts for Jenn-Air CCE3401B Cooktop - AppliancePartsPros.com

Sounds like a power problem to me.
The lights use 120 volts but the elements require the full 240 volts.

Try flipping the breaker off/on slowly a couple times. Sometimes you can loose half the line without actually tripping the breaker.
With the lower off check that the wire that are common to the elements are OK.
If the house wiring is connected to the stove top with murrets remove them and check that the connections are OK.

If all OK turn power on and check for power with a meter.
L1 to L2 should be 240 volts
L1 to Neutral and L2 to Neutral, both should be 120 volts.

[COLOR="Red"]Be careful as 240 volts is lethal !!![/COLOR]
THIS FORUM IS DEAD!!!!!!!
coolpontiac@yahoo.com  
#3 Posted : Friday, November 20, 2015 7:54:30 AM(UTC)
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coolpontiac@yahoo.com

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Thanks for the reply Denman...

just to confirm..

1. are you suggesting i open the junction box (below the stove) and make sure the physical connections are good. im assuming murrets are just high power version of 'wire nuts' ? and i can remove them to check voltages and then reinstall. its hard to believe a wire nut junction can fail over time? it doesnt vibrate or move... maybe it corrodes or oxidizes?

2. do circuit breakers just up and die after time even ? should i open my panel and check the voltages coming off the 2 breakers? is it a good idea to swap 2 working breakers (my electric oven for example) for the 2 questionable breakers (stovetop) before i go out and buy 2 new breakers

3. i have changed panel breakers once or twice before and i have a heathly dose of respect for electricity.. .nonetheless 220v is still a bit scary

thx
CP
denman  
#4 Posted : Friday, November 20, 2015 9:54:09 AM(UTC)
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denman

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[COLOR="Blue"]1. are you suggesting i open the junction box (below the stove)[/COLOR]
Yes

[COLOR="Blue"]and make sure the physical connections are good. im assuming murrets are just high power version of 'wire nuts' ? [/COLOR]
Yes they are.
The best ones are the ones with a brass insert with a screw that tightens down on the wires and then the bakelite cover screws onto this insert,

[COLOR="Blue"]and i can remove them to check voltages and then reinstall. its hard to believe a wire nut junction can fail over time? it doesnt vibrate or move... maybe it corrodes or oxidizes?[/COLOR]
Yes they can fail depending on which type are used.
Also you do not know if they were installed correctly.
If it is a poor connectioion it can heat up and fail, that is usually the most obvious.
[COLOR="Blue"]
2. do circuit breakers just up and die after time even ? [/COLOR]
Yes they can

[COLOR="Blue"]should i open my panel and check the voltages coming off the 2 breakers? is it a good idea to swap 2 working breakers (my electric oven for example) for the 2 questionable breakers (stovetop) before i go out and buy 2 new breakers[/COLOR]
I would check under the stove top first.
That is the midpoint.
If you have the 240 then you know to look further in the stove top.
No 240 then you can look at the electrical panel.
It is really up to you as to what you feel is the easiest.
Depending on the panel and the breakers you may be able to measure across the breaker. You should see 0 volts.
If you see 120 volts then you know the breaker is bad (open).
It is a dual breaker but in your case only one side will be bad.
make sure all elements are off on the stove top when you do this.
Otherwise the 120 from the other side of the line can feed through and you will see it at both breakers.

[COLOR="Blue"]
3. i have changed panel breakers once or twice before and i have a heathly dose of respect for electricity.. .nonetheless 220v is still a bit scary[/COLOR]
I have been messing with this stuff for more than 30 years and it still scares me which is a good thing in my opinion. makes me think twice before I do anything.
THIS FORUM IS DEAD!!!!!!!
coolpontiac@yahoo.com  
#5 Posted : Friday, November 20, 2015 3:10:03 PM(UTC)
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coolpontiac@yahoo.com

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thanks for the help so far.

i confirmed at both the panel and at the junction box that im getting 110 v on both lines and 220v across L1 and L2. interesting to note that the romex coming from the panel seems to be thick (14 G?) but the wires going into the cooktop seem real thin. it was just simple large wire nuts making the connections but they arent corroded (still shiny )

What could the problem be that is stopping all 4 burners from heating but im still seeing lights on the cooktop? its not even clear to me how to open up the cooktop. there are no screws on teh top and none from underneath either. there is just a thin bead of silicone caulk around the cooktop
denman  
#6 Posted : Saturday, November 21, 2015 2:44:53 AM(UTC)
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denman

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All I can do is give you a link to the install sheet, see below.
http://www.maytag.com/digitalas...ns%20-%20AAECTDIRAII.pdf
Usually cook tops are held down by a couple brackets the operative word here is usually.

If I remember my electrical theory a stranded wire can carry more current than a solid wire of the same size because most of the the electrons move on the outside of the wire/s. But it has been over 40 years since I looked at theory so don's bet the farm on it.

You have the 240 so the problem has to be in the cook top.

See the attachment for the wiring diagram.
Should make it easier to troubleshoot as you can print it. Also it will let you trace the power using different colored pencils, crayon etc. Trace out L1 (black), L2 (red) and Neutral (white). When you do this you will see that all lights are connected to Neutral. Then if you look at what part of the infinite switch is used to close the circuit to them you will see that the other side of the switch is connected to L1.
Since they work I would say that L1 to Neutral is OK and the problem is in the L2 side of the line.
THIS FORUM IS DEAD!!!!!!!
coolpontiac@yahoo.com  
#7 Posted : Sunday, November 22, 2015 10:22:43 AM(UTC)
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coolpontiac@yahoo.com

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Thanks for the responses. Im still not able to figure out the problem. I have opened the cooktop. i can see the red and black wires going to the control knobs. I can measure 110v on both L1 and L2 (red and black) right where they go into the controls... so it doesnt seem to be a bad wire anywhere from the panel thru the junction box.. thru the wiring harness right up the the knobs.

the burners each get 2 wires into the actual eleement. i disconnected a couple of them (to remove the resisitive load of the elements) and measure voltage across the 2 wires that feed the burner element. i only see 2V AC when i turn on the knobs to high. i was expecting to see 220V ?

the only visible sign of issue is a little bit of burned insulation on 1 wire to one terminal of one of the burners. however the electrial connection seems ok. even if it wasnt... i dont thnk any of this stuff is wired in series (i mean... if one switch or one burner wire is faulty ... it shouldnt affect all 4 )

if i had some type of resistive short somewhere i cant see (like in a wire connection).. i would think i would feel heat or see burnt insultation?

what am i missing here ?
coolpontiac@yahoo.com  
#8 Posted : Sunday, November 22, 2015 6:07:21 PM(UTC)
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coolpontiac@yahoo.com

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I ahve done extensive testing of all the switches and wiring in the cooktop.
bottom line.. i see 220v everywhere im supposed to but that voltage drops to 0 when i turn on a burner.

here is example.
1. i see 220v on LF switch on the inputs L1 and L2
2. i turn the switch on
3. now i see that voltage at l1 AND L2 drop to 0

i had already checked the voltage at my two 40amp circuit breakers and saw that they are 110 v and 220 across the two of them when i started this project... but now im wondering if circuit breakers can behave this way if bad.

any ideas?
denman  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, November 24, 2015 11:03:30 AM(UTC)
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denman

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Yes the breakers could be doing something weird like this.

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner but I was at the cabin for a few days.

What I think is happening is that there is a high resistance somewhere in the line (could be in the circuit breaker). Since there is no circuit path you still see the 240 volts but as soon as you turn the dryer on, there is a circuit and the dryer tries to pull current. Then all of the voltage is dropped across the high resistance.
THIS FORUM IS DEAD!!!!!!!
coolpontiac@yahoo.com  
#10 Posted : Tuesday, November 24, 2015 12:12:51 PM(UTC)
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coolpontiac@yahoo.com

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hi Denman
thanks for your help... you were right about the resistive short.
i probably wasted 4 hours taking the stove completely apart for nothing.
of course i measured teh voltage at the breakers and at the junction box (the final splice to the stove wires) and seeing 220v i assumed i had power.

HOWEVER. there was another junction box (in the middle fo teh run), here the alum wires from the panel connected to copper wires and one of those connectors burnt up. this caused a 10ohm resistance ( I didnt know it at the time) on L1. I resplaced teh connector wiht an approved alum to copper connector ... scary that the correct connectors were already there (polaris type)but one burned up anyway .

btw. i have 40amp breakers on this line. the stove tag say 7KW at 120/240v
can i get by with two (safer) 30amp breakers for this load? 7000/240 = 30
i dont remember if i have ot convert 240 to some RMS value? (instead of peak to peak)???
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