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fairbank56  
#11 Posted : Sunday, July 27, 2014 3:25:58 AM(UTC)
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fairbank56

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Sounds like the motor's self-resetting thermal overload switch is tripping. Did you try getting the motor started by hand spinning with capacitor disconnected? Also, you really need to check the voltage at the motor while it is running, after hand starting, to rule out a low voltage problem. Stick your meter probes into the back side of the connector where the wires go in. Check between blue and orange with washer in normal cycle spin.

I've seen this kind of thing before where the motor gets damaged due to banging on the tub nut to get it loose. That's why I always remove the motor before doing that. First time it happened was on my own GE washer. Replaced the transmission and afterwards, the motor switch was failing. I was able to take it apart and repair it and it's been fine since.

Eric
cronaldallen  
#12 Posted : Sunday, July 27, 2014 3:21:24 PM(UTC)
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This is interesting. Ok, I pulled the wires from the capacitor, and when I started it up, the motor did start spinning by itself (still slowly it seems), but if you are correct about it cycling through thermal protection, that may only be because the motor was cold (?).

But here is what I found interesting. I am only getting about 30 VAC reading
across the blue and orange wires. I had a hard time getting a reading with the connector on, since the motor platform was in the way trying to insert them into the back of the connector, so I disconnected and read from the side that the motor plugs into. What could be trimming the voltage down?
cronaldallen  
#13 Posted : Sunday, July 27, 2014 8:07:12 PM(UTC)
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So I dug out my "needle point" probes for my FLUKE meter, and was able to get a reading between blue and orange while the motor was still hooked up.

The first reading was while it was buzzing which read 14.7 VAC. After a short period the buzzing stopped (thermal protection?) and I read 42.1 VAC.

I have been trying to get the mental picture of what is taking place. I know that the orange wire is neutral, after it makes the lid switch, so neutral is always present (if the lid is closed). I see that the blue wire comes out of the timer, and I assume it would be carrying line voltage, when active. I guess where I am losing it is because I am thinking that the voltage at the start windings play a role in the reading that I am getting (?) and some of the voltage is already present(?)

It was a long time ago when I studied motors in school, and I am drawing blank.

Sheeeeesh... And the guys in my dorm promised there wouldn't be any long term effects!

Any light that you could shed would be greatly appreciated.

BTW, I am sort of hoping that this will create an opportunity for me to learn how to clean up a motor switch, since this too is my personal machine.
fairbank56  
#14 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2014 4:28:12 AM(UTC)
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fairbank56

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The voltage drop would be due to a faulty contact or connection. Could be at lid switch, water level pressure switch or timer, however, voltage drops occur due to the current passing through any resistance caused by the faulty contact/connection. So, it doesn't make sense that you read low voltage with motor connector disconnected because there is no current flow with it disconnected. There are two different ways to determine where a voltage drop is occurring. Using your wiring diagram below which shows current path in regular cycle spin mode (red hot, blue neutral), as an example, lets say the problem is bad contacts at timer R11 to R12. Place one meter probe at a good ground connection and the other at R11. You read 120vac. Now check at R12 and you read 90vac. You know the contact is dropping 30vac. The other way is to measure across the contacts, so placing your probes between R11 and R12, you would read 30vac. This procedure has to be done with motor connected and running. As I said, with motor disconnected, there is no current flow and there won't be any voltage drop even if there are bad contacts/connections. Hope you get the jist of what I am trying to get across. Trying to explain electrical troubleshooting techniques to a layman is usually an exercise in frustration.

Eric

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cronaldallen  
#15 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2014 10:00:46 AM(UTC)
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Ok, I will do this tonight when I get back home. Thanks again for your help on this. Just for clarification, does the motor actually have to be spinning, or does it just have to be asked to start, and with respect to the thermal protection, does that need to be closed when I am taking my measurements?
fairbank56  
#16 Posted : Monday, July 28, 2014 10:56:49 AM(UTC)
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Yes, the motor should be spinning. A motor that is powered but will not start rotating draws very high current. That's not good for the motor nor for the wiring and switch contacts that supply that current. The thermal overload switch must be closed, otherwise there is no current flow at all. We must check voltages with the washer under load, i.e. running normally.

Eric
cronaldallen  
#17 Posted : Tuesday, July 29, 2014 1:40:43 AM(UTC)
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With the motor running, I took these measurements to ground:

Hot
Red / Black to Timer 116.4 VAC
Yellow / Black Timer to Pressure Switch 115.6 VAC
Brown Pressure Switch to Timer 5.8 VAC
Red Timer to Capacitor / Motor 7.69 VAC

Neutral
White / Red to Lid Switch 4.79 VAC
Orange Lid Switch to Motor 5.31 VAC
Yellow from Motor 7.21 VAC
Violet / White 20.75 VAC

So I see a problem at the pressure switch if the brown wire is supposed to be returning the voltage sent by the yellow / black wire when the switch is made. Since the tub still had water in it, after I was finished taking my measurements, I disconnected the power, and read the resistance across the pressure switch (yellow / black to brown) and I read 1091 ohms.

When I look at the measurements on the neutral side, I am not sure what it is telling me.

Looking at the diagram, there were a couple of places that it wasn't too clear (to me) on the wire color ( like coming from the timer bus a wire comes out, then splits, one side going to R16, and the other side going to M6 - in which case I got the measurement on the red wire going to the capacitor). That is why I included with my measurements, the location that I took my reading. If there are any that I didn't read at the correct location, let me know which ones, and I will take new measurements.

Again, I really appreciate your helping me with this.

Thanks,

Ron
fairbank56  
#18 Posted : Tuesday, July 29, 2014 4:19:05 AM(UTC)
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fairbank56

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If the tub has enough water in it, the pressure switch is going to be in the other position making yellow/black to violet, not yellow/black to brown. Did you have the washer in spin mode or agitation? Feel like we are getting nowhere. I won't be around the rest of the day but will check back in tonight.

Eric
cronaldallen  
#19 Posted : Tuesday, July 29, 2014 7:02:11 AM(UTC)
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You are right. Because I didn't have the spin basket in or the belt attached to the transmission, I guess it wasn't clear if it was agitating or spinning, then when I realize that the water was still in the tub, it was apparent that it must have been agitating.

Here are the new readings with the motor spinning during a spin cycle, measuring to ground:

Hot
Red / Black - to Timer 115.8 VAC
Yellow / Black - Timer to Pressure Switch 115.3 VAC
Brown - Pressure Switch to Timer 115.2 VAC
Dark Blue - Timer to Motor 23.42 VAC
Red - Timer to Capacitor 23.7 VAC
Red - Capacitor to Motor 24.8 VAC

Neutral
White / Red - to Lid Switch 5.43 VAC
Orange - Lid Switch to Motor 6.51 VAC
Yellow - Motor 7.99 VAC
Violet / White - Motor 7.94 VAC

Sorry for the erroneous readings before. I really do appreciate your helping me on this.

Looking at these readings, I want to jump to the conclusion that I am losing my voltage inside of the timer (between brown and dark blue), but I see that there are three nodes at that point (M6 at the motor, R16 before the capacitor, and R21 before the motor switch(?)), any of which could possibly have a role in this?

Thank you again for helping me on this.

Ron
fairbank56  
#20 Posted : Wednesday, July 30, 2014 4:34:43 AM(UTC)
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fairbank56

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Looks like you have a faulty timer.

GE WH12X1031 Timer - AppliancePartsPros.com

Eric
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