Customer Support 7 days a week

Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

6 Pages123>»
Options
Go to last post Go to first unread
officework13  
#1 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2011 5:00:28 PM(UTC)
officework13

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/15/2011(UTC)
Posts: 14

Frigidaire Dishwasher
Model#: FDB641RJS0
was working properly, then in last 6 months certain dishes in the top (especially glasses, including wine) are having soap scum and particles left on them. plastic dishes are not as bad.
have tried 3 different dishdetergents including, granualar, liquid, and single packet (small puck like thing)
set it to pots & pans, with high heat options.
i turn on the water on the sink to ensure water is hot.
most times dishes are prewashed to the point that they are clean.
cleaned out the strainer at the bottom which had some junk in it but did not solve the problem.
have never ran a cleaning agent through or vinegar.
if there is a service manual for this, please pass along as well as the recommended fixes.
i suspect it is a plugged tube and not enough water getting to the top. i need to know how to remove this hose.
also, when the diswasher drains, it pumps the water into the sink with what appears to be fairly good pressure and so i do not think it is a wore out pump/impeller.
any assistance appreciated.
Sponsor
See inside of your appliance - diagrams and part photos for virtually every model.

powered by AppliancePartsPros.com
 
Gene  
#2 Posted : Tuesday, March 15, 2011 10:17:53 PM(UTC)
Gene

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Senior Expert
Joined: 7/19/2007(UTC)
Posts: 27,455

Sounds like the problem with your dishwasher is more chemical than mechanical.

Numbers of complains like yours increased dramatically because since July 1, 2010 all dishwashing detergents are now phosphate free to comply with various state regulations. It might be cleaner for Environment but definitely not for dishes.

Phosphates were added to detergents to sequester minerals in water and thus improve wash performance. Detergents without phosphates tend to leave mineral deposits on glassware and other items, leading to poor wash performance.

So far in some detergents like Cascade Complete All in 1 ActionPacs phosphates have been replaced with enzymes. It works pretty good as a power booster, but there is one trick. DO NOT rinse dishes prior to load them into dishwasher. Enzymes would not work without grease!

The use of a rinse agent in your dishwasher may also help to minimize a repeat build up of film.

Also you'll need to use a dishwasher cleaners on regular basis. There are a few of them on the market. I'm using for my dishwasher Dishwasher Magic which works very good.

UserPostedImage


Gene.
officework13  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, March 16, 2011 9:57:48 AM(UTC)
officework13

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/15/2011(UTC)
Posts: 14

so last night i removed the lower arm and pulled out the big flat screen and the lower screen and cleaned them out. they were relatively clean and there was no junk laying in the bottom where the pump is. The lower arm holes are clean and i removed the top arm and the top arm holes are clean as well. Then i ran the diswasher for the complete cycle, and opening the door throughout the cycle. There was not a lot of water in the bottom of the diswasher and i would say the top of the water edge was pretty much straight down from the heating element. I ran the water from the tap to heat it up. the tap water was only 128 farenheit and so i turned up the water tank thermometer.
i also tested the water in the diswasher and it was 120. i had the settings set as pots & pans, with the 3 buttons pressed (pots & pans, high heat wash, high heat dry).
the bottom arm spins. However, the top are does not appear to have moved at all but when i open the dishwasher it looks like water is draining form the top arm which suggests it is getting some water. i opened the diswasher several times and it was always where i set it to start with.
i then ran a container of 'diswasher magic' through it.
i also use 'jet dry' or equivalent by finish.

i have until March 20th to solve the problem and then my wife wants a new dishwasher.
Given the that top arm does not spin please enlighten me as to what the issues may be and how i could either test or fix them. in particular, how/where is the hose that goes to the top. do i have to remove the diswasher from the cupboard to get at it (i think i do), or will the dishwasher magic have cleaned it out, leaving the other issue being not enough water in the machine or the pump just does not have it any more.

please advise.
Gene  
#4 Posted : Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:37:57 PM(UTC)
Gene

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Senior Expert
Joined: 7/19/2007(UTC)
Posts: 27,455

The water distribution system in your dishwasher designed to operate only one spray arm at a time. During the first wash and first and second rinses, only the lower spray arm operates. You can learn more form the file attached to the reply.

It also can be not enough water in the dishwasher due to a clogged screen in the water inlet valve.

- The water inlet valve Part number: AP4321824
Part number: AP4321824



Here are the breakdown diagrams and Replacement parts for FRIGIDAIRE FDB641RJS0 Frg(v2) / Dishwasher | AppliancePartsPros.com

Gene.
File Attachment(s):
WATER DISTRIBUTION SYSTEM.doc (262kb) downloaded 207 time(s).

You cannot view/download attachments. Try to login or register.
officework13  
#5 Posted : Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:57:02 AM(UTC)
officework13

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/15/2011(UTC)
Posts: 14

so i read the article on how this diswasher works. last night i opened up the compartement where the ball is and everything looks normal such as the ball looks OK, all the fins on the impeller look good with no broken fins). is there anything else i was to look at in this area.
So my next trial will be to pull out the dishwasher and clean the screen in the inlet valve.
my question is, do i clean the screen or do i have to replace the whole inlet valve. and if i just clean the screen, is there a trick or something good to use (i.e. clr), and where will i find the screen in relation to the inlet valve.
thanks.
officework13  
#6 Posted : Thursday, March 17, 2011 12:04:23 PM(UTC)
officework13

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/15/2011(UTC)
Posts: 14

to add to the above,
how can i tell if there is the proper amount of water in the diswasher.
i am thinking that perhaps the water is to be the height of the little knob which protrudes upwards on the big flat round screen (part #65). reason being, is that i have no idea what else that knob could be for.

Also, with regards to the water heating. i think this only occurs on my dishwasher when set to pots & pans and think it is a timed thing vs temperature regulated. if i have this setting, what is the temperature that the element will try to heat the water too.
Many dishwashers heat the wash and/or rinse water to a higher temperature, as the cycle calls for it. In these cycles, the dishwasher pauses after it has filled with water, waiting for the water to reach the pre-set temperature. What happens next, depends, as follows:



On some units, the pause is timed and the unit continues after the allotted time.
Gene  
#7 Posted : Thursday, March 17, 2011 9:14:26 PM(UTC)
Gene

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Senior Expert
Joined: 7/19/2007(UTC)
Posts: 27,455

Most of dishwashers do not stop for water heating. The cycle time pauses till a water temperature sensing device would not report a proper temperature. This is the way how good dishwashers work. Bottom of the line models do not have such devices and water heats up by preset time.

You don't have to pull the dishwasher out of the cabinet to access the water inlet valve. It is accessible from the front after you remove the bottom panel. Shut off the water supply for the dishwasher and disconnect the water line from the water inlet valve. You'll see the screen inside. I usably prefer to replace the water inlet valve instead of cleaning the screen. This part is not expensive and it makes repair more reliable.

Gene.
officework13  
#8 Posted : Saturday, March 19, 2011 1:14:22 PM(UTC)
officework13

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/15/2011(UTC)
Posts: 14

1 day to go (then sale of the dishwasher i am looking at is over & my wife is done with me).
so yesterday i changed the water inlet valve. do not believe there was any change in how my diswasher worked. ($30 wasted but oh well).
i have the following details and perhaps it will help a bit more.
Not sure how much water is to be coming in but here is what i have figured out.
There are the following cycles of washing and for each cycle, the dishwasher does not fill all the way (to the max) for any of the cycles. i would say only about 50% of the water comes in. is this normal for each of the cycles or should the water fill until the float rises lifting the switch and turning off the water inlet valve. i tried turning the timing dial all the way around so that the dishwasher would continue filling. (basically giving it 2x the amount of time to fill the dishwasher). in this case, the float rose, activating the switch and turning off the water inlet vlave. (for some reason when i did this though some water came out the bottom of the dishwasher where the float rod comes through. So here are the runs and some info.

Pots & pans wash: only bottom arm runs.

Normal wash: only bottom arm runs.

Light wash 1 (there are 4 different times the unit will fill with water): bottom arm runs and then the top arm runs for a bit. This is where it gets odd, as soon as the top arm starts the drain pump cuts in at the same time and so the top arm wash does not occur very long.

Light wash 2: Bottom arm, top1,bot,top2,bot,top3,bot,top4,bot drain.

Light wash 3: Bottom arm, top1,bot,top2,bot,top3,drain.

Light wash 4: Bottom arm, top1,bot,drain

Drying.

So after running the dishwasher, using an all in one puck with the red ball detergent, and the dishwasher was not overly full, and not having the full amount of water in the dishwasher for each cycle, (not sure if this is required for each one or just certain ones), my dishes came our fairly dirty and there was food gunk on the front door as well. (i did not run the dry cycle.
so i ran it a second time with cascade granualar in both the open door and trap door using pots & pans cycle again. Again the dishes came out dirty.

i use finish or jet dry rinse aide.

my only 2 things i could think of were that there is not enough water in the machine for all or certain cycles, now given that i changed the water inlet valve the only things i could think of were either there is a restriction after the water inlet valve preventing water to come in as fast as it should, or the water line to the water inlet valve is restricted somehow and so not enough water is getting in to the dishwasher in the allotted time.
the other thing i thought could be shot is the timer.

also, how can you tell if the impeller is no longer any good, and if an impeller wears out does it reduce the water pressure resulting in dirty water...

thanks.
Gene  
#9 Posted : Saturday, March 19, 2011 11:19:36 PM(UTC)
Gene

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Senior Expert
Joined: 7/19/2007(UTC)
Posts: 27,455

Originally Posted by: officework13 Go to Quoted Post
...yesterday i changed the water inlet valve. do not believe there was any change in how my diswasher worked. ($30 wasted but oh well)...

...There are the following cycles of washing and for each cycle, the dishwasher does not fill all the way (to the max) for any of the cycles. i would say only about 50% of the water comes in...

...my only 2 things i could think of were that there is not enough water in the machine for all or certain cycles, now given that i changed the water inlet valve the only things i could think of were either there is a restriction after the water inlet valve preventing water to come in as fast as it should, or the water line to the water inlet valve is restricted somehow and so not enough water is getting in to the dishwasher in the allotted time.
the other thing i thought could be shot is the timer...

...also, how can you tell if the impeller is no longer any good, and if an impeller wears out does it reduce the water pressure resulting in dirty water...

thanks.



If you ordered the water inlet valve from APP then you can easy return it.


The dishwasher has water fill time on any cycle between 80 to 90 seconds and water consumption on Normal cycle is between 5 to 6 gallons. So you can check the time and you can pour 6 gallons of water to compare the water level. If the fill time is much shorter then the timer is bad. If the water level with measured 6 gallons of water is much higher with the new water inlet valve then the problem is with the incoming water line.

It is possible that there is not enough pressure in the water line connected to the dishwasher. The water shut off valve can be bad or it might be not fully open.

I never heard about worn out impellers for these dishwashers.

Gene.
officework13  
#10 Posted : Sunday, March 20, 2011 1:05:30 AM(UTC)
officework13

Rank: Member

Groups: Registered
Joined: 3/15/2011(UTC)
Posts: 14

OK Gene-that info was valuable.
with the dishwasher set to Normal cycle it filled with water for 85 seconds. During this time, only 1.06 US galons of water entered.
i then tested the volume of water that could enter before teh fill turn off switch would activate with the float. in this case, when 2.12 US galons were put in the dishwasher, then the float switch would click, indicating that the water would turn off. when the water is in the dishwasher it is still below the heater.

so based on the above, i am thinking that the water line or valve is not large enough for an adequeate/required amount of water to enter. i will have to replace them. The pressure is around 60 psi. no other water sources were on.

The other thing that confuses me a bit, is that you indicated that i should measure how much water i can put in to the machine and that it should be about 5-6 US galons. Just to clarify, this 5-6 US galons is for the entire cycles and not just the 1 cycle. however, if i have this wrong and it takes 5-6 US galons just for the normal washer, please let me know.

thanks again.
Users browsing this topic
6 Pages123>»
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.