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Still cannot figure out cause of F5 error

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Oven would overheat and not shut off. After disconnecting power would work but upper oven would not turn on and

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Old 02-06-2011, 01:03 PM
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Default Still cannot figure out cause of F5 error
Model Number: WW30430P   Brand: Jenn-Air   Age: More than 10 years   

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Oven would overheat and not shut off. After disconnecting power would work but upper oven would not turn on and an F2 error would come on. Replaced the Power Relay Board. Then upper oven still would not work and would get F2 error. I replaced the AP4090010 (71001872) - Electronic clock/oven control and am still getting the F2 error. Have also checked the oven temp sensor each time as well.

Any ideas what it could be? Seems like i am missing something but cannot think of what to check.


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 02-07-2011, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isomc01 View Post
Oven would overheat and not shut off. After disconnecting power would work but upper oven would not turn on and an F2 error would come on. Replaced the Power Relay Board. Then upper oven still would not work and would get F2 error. I replaced the AP4090010 (71001872) - Electronic clock/oven control and am still getting the F2 error. Have also checked the oven temp sensor each time as well.

Any ideas what it could be? Seems like i am missing something but cannot think of what to check.

Isomc,

I presume this is the upper oven ?

Either way,

The F2 and the F5 code, indicate a problem in the oven temperature sensor

Part number: AP4009009

Part number: AP4009009


Or the relay board, and wiring,

Part number: AP4095668

Part number: AP4095668


You've already taken care of the ERC/control.

***First, turn off the power to the wall oven***

To test your sensor,

Access the relay board on the right side inner wall behind the panel,

Disconnect the two (purple)wire connector, the green colored plug is the upper oven sensor, and the orange colored plug is the lower oven sensor on the relay board.

Check for 1050 to 1100 ohms resistance across the wires in the connector(not the pins on the PCB)at room temperature.

(you could check both sensors as a comparison)

Check all the wires and connections for loose or damaged connections,

If all's OK replace the relay board.

Good Luck,
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Old 02-07-2011, 05:26 PM
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I check the resistance of the connection to the board and it read correctly 1078. Also checked the wiring and the insulation around the coupling of the thermocouple and it appeared to be fine.

Already replaced relay board due to original F2 error. Now trying to correct F5 error.

Any other ideas?
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Old 02-08-2011, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isomc01 View Post
I check the resistance of the connection to the board and it read correctly 1078. Also checked the wiring and the insulation around the coupling of the thermocouple and it appeared to be fine.

Already replaced relay board due to original F2 error. Now trying to correct F5 error.

Any other ideas?
Isomc,

The F5 error code indicates:

"Power to the element relays disabled in cook mode.

Components to check:
1) Intermittent sensor or wire harness connection
2) Intermittent contact on PRB(power relay board).

Now you need to do a "live" voltage test at the relays on the PRB.
and check the hi limit switch on the exhaust tube.

At the relay board, with power on,

Check the Black wire L1 to chassis ground for 120 VAC( the L1 terminal is on the front of the PRB, closest to you).

Check the double Red wires to chassis ground for 120 VAC (the L2 terminal is located on the back of the PRB.

Check L1 Black to double Red L2, for 240 VAC.

Any low or missing voltage indicates a bad wire from the terminal block, on the back of the oven, or improper power supply to the unit.

On the exhaust tubes, you'll find hi limit switches mounted on the tubes,
Check both switches,

Black wire to chassis ground should have 120 VAC,
Orange wire to chassis ground should have 120 VAC.

Any missing voltage on the orange wire would indicate an oprn hi limit switch,
Any missing voltage on the black wire would indicate a bad wire or power supply to the unit.

With a bake cycle and temperature selected,

Check the Yellow wire(bake)terminal, on the back side, on the PRB for 120 VAC to chassis ground.
Missing voltage would indicate a bad bake relay(it didn't close) or a power supply problem to the oven.

With a broil cycle and temperature selected,

Check the Purple wire(broil)terminal, on the back upper portion of the PRB for 120 VAC to chassis ground.
Missing voltage would indicate a bad broil relay, or a power supply problem to the oven.

I'm sure you have double checked all of your connections to the ERC and relay board.

I'm sure you'll have it figured out after this check.

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Old 02-08-2011, 10:48 AM
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How do you access the exhaust tubes. I thought the hi limit thermostat was located on the floor of the access area that the relay boards are in above the top oven. Actually I thought i had checked the upper oven one for continuity but not for voltage.
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Old 02-08-2011, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isomc01 View Post
How do you access the exhaust tubes. I thought the hi limit thermostat was located on the floor of the access area that the relay boards are in above the top oven. Actually I thought i had checked the upper oven one for continuity but not for voltage.
Isomc,

You are correct, I apologize, got my diagrams mixxed up, your hilimit switch is mounted to the bottom of the compartment.

As for voltage checks vs resistance/continuity checks,

You can read continuity through wires and some components, because they are not under a "load" and evrything is "static".

However, when the component is under a "load"(voltage passing through it)"active", if there is a problem with a loose wire or a damaged contact,etc. the voltage will not flow,and you won't read 120 VAC to or through the component, because it is damaged, and the rest of the circuit is "dead", has no 120 VAC, and won't work.

It is a slightly more dangerous process, due to possible shock hazards, but it is the most accurate way to test components and wiring.


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Old 02-08-2011, 05:33 PM
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I have checked all the recommendations and they all are reading correctly. I would point out though that the yellow bake wire and the purple broil wire both read 120 with and with out selecting the cycle and temperature.

But as soon as they are selected it goes to the f5 error message for all cycles on the upper oven.

What are your thoughts about it being the temperature sensor even though it reads correctly both at the end of the sensor wire and at the junction to the PRB at room temperatures.
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Old 02-09-2011, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isomc01 View Post
I have checked all the recommendations and they all are reading correctly. I would point out though that the yellow bake wire and the purple broil wire both read 120 with and with out selecting the cycle and temperature.

But as soon as they are selected it goes to the f5 error message for all cycles on the upper oven.

What are your thoughts about it being the temperature sensor even though it reads correctly both at the end of the sensor wire and at the junction to the PRB at room temperatures.

OK,

So now that I know you have L1 voltage, through the hi limit and the elements, and the wiring to the relays on the PRB, everything there is OK.

Now disconnect the yellow and purple wires from the board, and check the empty terminals on the board to chassis ground for 120 VAC.

If you have 120 VAC, disconnect the touchpad ribbon, and re check for the 120 VAC, you may have a bad touchpad, but I would expect a F7 error code.

If you have 0 volts, program the ERC in a bake and broil mode and check for the 120 VAC , on the terminals or the PRB. If you have the voltage(s), that will tell us, you have L2 power to the the element(s), you have the 20 VAC through the ERC, and your touchpad assembly is completing the program circuit,and the relays are closing and the PRB is OK.

If all checks and readings are proper,

You'll need to remove the bake element enough to access the wiring/element terminals, program a bake cycle, and check for 240 VAC across the terminals,

0 volts, would indicate a loss of power on both L1&L2, a wiring problem to the unit(in the house wiring).

120 VAC would indicate a loss of one power leg under a load(either house or unit wiring).

As for the temperature sensor, everything there sounds fine, and should not be a problem, you may want to check for a resistance reading from each wire in the harness to chassis ground in case you have frayed or shorted insulation or wire to the chassis, but that would be a last resort.

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Old 02-12-2011, 11:46 AM
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OK, now I am not completely sure i did this all right but this is what I measured

I disconnected the yellow and purple wires and measured 0 volts on both.

Next i tried to measure the terminals while putting it in bake or broil mode but measured zero volts when trying to start the modes. this is with the wires disconnected. With the wires connected they measured 120 volts. Honestly, the F5 error comes immediately on so it does not appear that this does anything. I would get the same measurement with the oven off or with turning those on.

I pulled the baking element out (not so easy, and it does not appear to come very far out) and could only get 120v across it. with no controls on or while trying to turn bake on. I also noticed burn marks on the insulation around the left leg of the baking element.

I have not tried the broil element.
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Old 02-14-2011, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isomc01 View Post
OK, now I am not completely sure i did this all right but this is what I measured

I disconnected the yellow and purple wires and measured 0 volts on both.

Next i tried to measure the terminals while putting it in bake or broil mode but measured zero volts when trying to start the modes. this is with the wires disconnected. With the wires connected they measured 120 volts. Honestly, the F5 error comes immediately on so it does not appear that this does anything. I would get the same measurement with the oven off or with turning those on.

I pulled the baking element out (not so easy, and it does not appear to come very far out) and could only get 120v across it. with no controls on or while trying to turn bake on. I also noticed burn marks on the insulation around the left leg of the baking element.

I have not tried the broil element.
Isomc,

We had the correct readings when we first started this diagnosis.

With the yellow and purple wires disconnected from the relay board terminals, and power supplied to the oven, you should read 120 VAC from the wire tips to chassis ground.

Do we not have that now ?

I'm wonderring if we have a broken or loose wire in the back of the cabinet, based on the voltage readings and the discoloration, you mentioned.

I've been trying to avoid removing the unit from the cabinet, but I'm thinking we may have to.

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