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I pulled off the panel to check ignitor etc. Gas flame lights at start. Stays on long enough for a

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Old 12-23-2009, 09:41 AM
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Arrow Gas Dryer won't dry clothes
Model Number: LDI5521W0 (W+zero)   Brand: Whirlpool   Age: More than 10 years   

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I pulled off the panel to check ignitor etc. Gas flame lights at start. Stays on long enough for a spoon shaped deflector to glow red and the dryer drum to feel pretty warm.

The flame shuts off and after a few more minutes the ignitor glows repeatedly but the flame does not light again. Every time I run the dryer, the flame ALWAYS lights the first time and NEVER lights after that.

I tried a new radiant heat sensor but the symptons did not change.

The gas burner unit has 2 valves with 3 coils. The whole assembly is Whirlpool p/n 349621 with propane conversion kit p/n 239072. The valves are called "1 & 2". Valve 1 has two coils and 4 wires, called "HOLD" & "ASS'T". Valve 2 has a simple coil, just 2 wires. Valve 2 is wired in parallel with the radiant heat sensor.

I removed the valve 2 coil to check. No visable problems, very clean and like new. But the actuator shaft isn't free in the burner unit. At rest, the metal rod cannot be pushed further into the valve body. I am OK with that, it is probably in the closed position. But it takes a firm upward pull to draw it into where the coil would be. It is smooth, not sticking, just high effort. I am not sure the little coil can pull against that effort.

I did not remove the valve 1 coil. It is not hard to do, but I am not sure I am getting closer to fixing the dryer by doing so. I will wait for some advice first.

I do have an electrical diagram and I am trained at following them and making voltage checks. I can make leak tight plumbing connections too. I have rebuilt many different makes of solonoid valves. But my combustion equipment is very different from a home appliance. I don't understand the 2 valve 3 coil design. I am only making guesses. It looks like they are trying to vary gas flow for a smooth safe ignition and then a different flow rate once flame is established. Like the ignitor causes the heat sensor to open circuit, allowing current to flow through the valve 2 coil and ignition.

Please suggest what to do to fix this dryer. You have a Whirlpool coil replacement kit, your part number is AP3094251 for about $15 and your replacement burner valve assembly is AP3094285 for $141.05 I hope I don't have to buy the more expensive part

Thanks for any help you can be, "Patch0101008".


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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 12-23-2009, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
...The flame shuts off and after a few more minutes the ignitor glows repeatedly but the flame does not light again....
This is one of the most common problems with all gas dryers and the gas valve coils are the culprit. I do not think there is something wrong with the gas valve itself. A new coil kit should fix it. The Part number: AP3094251

Part number: AP3094251

is correct.

Gene.
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Old 12-26-2009, 06:31 PM
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Default Same Problem

Hi, I have a whirpool gas dryer. I have exactly the same symptoms that you described and have followed the same troubleshooting path that you have followed. I checked the thermostats/thermal fuse etc. and have come to the same point that you are at.

I noticed that the radiant heat sensor seams to react to the ignitor. I replaced that part and the symptoms are the same. I am now looking at the burner valve assembly. If you have replaced the coils as Gene has suggested, please let me know how you have made out.

Thanks!
lmm254
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Old 12-26-2009, 09:35 PM
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Thanks Gene I will order coils Monday morning and post results ASAP.
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Old 01-02-2010, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch010108 View Post
I pulled off the panel to check ignitor etc. Gas flame lights at start. Stays on long enough for a spoon shaped deflector to glow red and the dryer drum to feel pretty warm.

The flame shuts off and after a few more minutes the ignitor glows repeatedly but the flame does not light again. Every time I run the dryer, the flame ALWAYS lights the first time and NEVER lights after that.

I tried a new radiant heat sensor but the symptons did not change.

The gas burner unit has 2 valves with 3 coils. The whole assembly is Whirlpool p/n 349621 with propane conversion kit p/n 239072. The valves are called "1 & 2". Valve 1 has two coils and 4 wires, called "HOLD" & "ASS'T". Valve 2 has a simple coil, just 2 wires. Valve 2 is wired in parallel with the radiant heat sensor.

I removed the valve 2 coil to check. No visable problems, very clean and like new. But the actuator shaft isn't free in the burner unit. At rest, the metal rod cannot be pushed further into the valve body. I am OK with that, it is probably in the closed position. But it takes a firm upward pull to draw it into where the coil would be. It is smooth, not sticking, just high effort. I am not sure the little coil can pull against that effort.

I did not remove the valve 1 coil. It is not hard to do, but I am not sure I am getting closer to fixing the dryer by doing so. I will wait for some advice first.

I do have an electrical diagram and I am trained at following them and making voltage checks. I can make leak tight plumbing connections too. I have rebuilt many different makes of solonoid valves. But my combustion equipment is very different from a home appliance. I don't understand the 2 valve 3 coil design. I am only making guesses. It looks like they are trying to vary gas flow for a smooth safe ignition and then a different flow rate once flame is established. Like the ignitor causes the heat sensor to open circuit, allowing current to flow through the valve 2 coil and ignition.

Please suggest what to do to fix this dryer. You have a Whirlpool coil replacement kit, your part number is AP3094251 for about $15 and your replacement burner valve assembly is AP3094285 for $141.05 I hope I don't have to buy the more expensive part

Thanks for any help you can be, "Patch0101008".
Please note my last paragraph as that's where my repair question is.

Thanks Gene, I ordered the coils, and posted this message to the wrong thread? Ooops.

Got the coils.
I hope this update is attached to original post. New coils do not fit my burner assembly. They are too "tall". They also do not have pigtail wires and I don't have any connectors to perfectly fit them. But too tall is a deal killer. The replacement and the original coils have similar ohm values, so I don't think the originals are defective. I am going to make some quick test point jacks and measure voltages while it is running and see if coils have power or not.

Is there any advantage beyond getting the dryer fixed, to replaceing the burner. It will not be the original 25K type unit. The replacement is an FSP brand 25M burner. That appears from parts photos why the replacement coils do not fit. They locate completely differently and in the replacement burner photos I can see the connectors that are not used in my dryer. Will it be more economical, safer, quieter, anything like that? Any advantage beyond simply fixing the dryer? I need to convince my parents that the $140 is worth it.
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:37 PM
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Patch0101008,

I did not realize that you have a "K" series gas valve in your dryer (gas valve is not shown on the diagram for this model). The AP3094251 coil kit is for "M" series gas valve (for later models) and is not interchangeable.

"K" series gas valve requires the AP3094108 coil kit which is much more expensive - $65.18

It will be more cost efficient and safer to replace the whole gas valve with newer "M" series gas valve and burner assembly if your parents decided to keep this dryer.

Your parents dryer is probably over 20 years old. It's still worth to fix it and invest such money in it, if it's in good shape and condition. A new, large capacity, gas dryer will cost probably over $400

- The gas valve and burner assembly Part number: AP3094285

Part number: AP3094285



If you need the LP conversion kit, the Part number: AP3094291

Part number: AP3094291



Gene.

P.S. Adam from the APP customer service will discuss with you the coil kit return issue.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:50 PM
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Default Got correct replacement coils.

Carefully installed coils onto valve stems, stems can move off center and tilted. Made sure they were centered upright and made sure O ring seals seated into recess. Operated dryer, but now I don't even get the first try flame on like I did before. I can hear a click before ignitor glows and a louder click about the time the ignitor cools off. Using a screwdriver "stethoscope" I am sure it is the solonoid valves opening and closing. One or both of them, can't tell which.

I don't recall such a loud click on or off with the old coils. Ohm readings for original and replacement coils are exactly the same. I will reinstall the old coils to verify the differance in the click sound.

My "stethoscope" does not pick up any sound of gas flowing through the burner. Made sure shutoff valves were open.

Did I position those valve stems correctly during coil installation?

Are the valves junk if the stems can be positioned off center, like guide bushings have worn out and broken away?

Do I have a clogged burner?

Is there a screen filter or anything like that I can check?

Do I clear a clog by removing the burner, applying suction to the burner inlet and then pulling upward on the valve stems to back flow air and push the clog out the same way it came in?

How do I clean a clogged outlet nozzle and do I try that first?

Is it harmful to use compressed air on a low pressure converted burner?

I do wish my folks would buy the replacement burner or that I could afford to buy it for them because that would have prevented all this. But I did what I could. I had a bad feeling that coils weren't my problem because of the ohm reading matches. I am surprised by how loud the clicks are with the new coils though. Maybe I had bad coils and a clogged burner too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patch010108 View Post
I pulled off the panel to check ignitor etc. Gas flame lights at start. Stays on long enough for a spoon shaped deflector to glow red and the dryer drum to feel pretty warm.

The flame shuts off and after a few more minutes the ignitor glows repeatedly but the flame does not light again. Every time I run the dryer, the flame ALWAYS lights the first time and NEVER lights after that.

I tried a new radiant heat sensor but the symptons did not change.

The gas burner unit has 2 valves with 3 coils. The whole assembly is Whirlpool p/n 349621 with propane conversion kit p/n 239072. The valves are called "1 & 2". Valve 1 has two coils and 4 wires, called "HOLD" & "ASS'T". Valve 2 has a simple coil, just 2 wires. Valve 2 is wired in parallel with the radiant heat sensor.

I removed the valve 2 coil to check. No visable problems, very clean and like new. But the actuator shaft isn't free in the burner unit. At rest, the metal rod cannot be pushed further into the valve body. I am OK with that, it is probably in the closed position. But it takes a firm upward pull to draw it into where the coil would be. It is smooth, not sticking, just high effort. I am not sure the little coil can pull against that effort.

I did not remove the valve 1 coil. It is not hard to do, but I am not sure I am getting closer to fixing the dryer by doing so. I will wait for some advice first.

I do have an electrical diagram and I am trained at following them and making voltage checks. I can make leak tight plumbing connections too. I have rebuilt many different makes of solonoid valves. But my combustion equipment is very different from a home appliance. I don't understand the 2 valve 3 coil design. I am only making guesses. It looks like they are trying to vary gas flow for a smooth safe ignition and then a different flow rate once flame is established. Like the ignitor causes the heat sensor to open circuit, allowing current to flow through the valve 2 coil and ignition.

Please suggest what to do to fix this dryer. You have a Whirlpool coil replacement kit, your part number is AP3094251 for about $15 and your replacement burner valve assembly is AP3094285 for $141.05 I hope I don't have to buy the more expensive part

Thanks for any help you can be, "Patch0101008".
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Old 01-16-2010, 04:53 AM
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I never tried these post forum things before. I amazed me how fast Gene responded with help for me. But I have not gotten a responce to my latest questions yet. Maybe something went wrong with how I posted, or maybe it isn't even clear that I have any questions. I tried to make them all clear by placing an emoticon with a question mark halo. Anyway I am graetful for the help I got and hope I can get a little more.

Sincerely, Patch010108
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Old 09-18-2012, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene View Post
This is one of the most common problems with all gas dryers and the gas valve coils are the culprit. I do not think there is something wrong with the gas valve itself. A new coil kit should fix it. The Part number: AP3094251

Part number: AP3094251

is correct.

Gene.
I must tell you I have been messing with my GE dryer for a couple of days now. I had no heat, its been getting worse over time and not that old either. I knew about the coils so I picked up a set at the local appliance store. So did the install not to bad other then some scrapes from the drum as I left it in. Cleaned all the lint all over and behind the drum wall. Same issue short amount of heat then nothing. Then I searched again and found your site, and when you said watch for the little collar and the small tabs at the top I'm like oops I had one upside down. I paused the video opened the dryer again for like the fifth time ( I think I can do it blindfolded now) yep upside down ....took it off flopped it reconnected ( yes power was disconnected sorry ) so far so good it has cycled numerous times and we have heat. You are a life saver and $$$ on a new dryer. Thanks so much for your expertise in this field, and need any questions regarding printing just holler...Jeff
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Old 09-18-2012, 08:12 PM
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Jeff,

We are glad to hear we could help you out. If there is anything else we can help you with, drop us a line.

Gene.
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