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Xtalker  
#1 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 4:18:49 AM(UTC)
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Xtalker

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This dishwasher started leaving a thick chalky residue on the dishes. I'm suspecting the heating element. The element gets power during the wash cycle and seems to get hot, but the wash water mid-cycle is only about 123 degrees. (tap water temp is 130 degrees) The element resistance measures 17 ohms (exptected 22 ohms). My question is if the element is really bad?

Thanks! Bob in Raleigh
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Joe / APP Team  
#2 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 5:20:03 AM(UTC)
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Joe / APP Team

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Originally Posted by: Xtalker Go to Quoted Post
This dishwasher started leaving a thick chalky residue on the dishes. I'm suspecting the heating element. The element gets power during the wash cycle and seems to get hot, but the wash water mid-cycle is only about 123 degrees. (tap water temp is 130 degrees) The element resistance measures 17 ohms (exptected 22 ohms). My question is if the element is really bad?

Thanks! Bob in Raleigh


Your element is good, or within tolerance and is your least likeliest concern.

On average it is normal to see a 8 to 10 degree drop in water temperature when the motor engages and circulates the water .

Have you changed detergents ? and do you use rinse agent ?

I suggest you check the hardness of your water (should be less than 12 grains hardness ) and make sure your fill level is proper (should be level with the top of the pump cover + or - 3/16 of an inch
Xtalker  
#3 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 6:05:22 AM(UTC)
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Xtalker

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We've tried rinse agents with little result. We continue to use Cascade detergent which looks like it still contains phosphates. We do have un-conditioned water that I'm sure is somewhat hard (how to measure?) The thing is that this chalkiness was a dramatic change and I can't imagine our water hardness changed overnight, and I've checked with neighbors but no similar complaints! The dishes come out very ugly until they are re-washed with vinegar.

I will take a look at the water level, but I think it at least covers the pump cover. The float switch seems to work ok. I've checked and cleaned all the filters and screens on the tub bottom. Not sure what else to check, this is a dishwasher and it shouldn't be rocket surgery!

Thanks for any other help here!
Joe / APP Team  
#4 Posted : Monday, July 19, 2010 6:57:32 AM(UTC)
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Joe / APP Team

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Originally Posted by: Xtalker Go to Quoted Post
We've tried rinse agents with little result. We continue to use Cascade detergent which looks like it still contains phosphates. We do have un-conditioned water that I'm sure is somewhat hard (how to measure?) The thing is that this chalkiness was a dramatic change and I can't imagine our water hardness changed overnight, and I've checked with neighbors but no similar complaints! The dishes come out very ugly until they are re-washed with vinegar.

I will take a look at the water level, but I think it at least covers the pump cover. The float switch seems to work ok. I've checked and cleaned all the filters and screens on the tub bottom. Not sure what else to check, this is a dishwasher and it shouldn't be rocket surgery!

Thanks for any other help here!


You are correct "this shoudl'nt be rocket surgery".

There are numerous outside sources of washability problems in dishwashers. as I mentioned previously.
It appears you have done all the other reccomended checks and tests. I prefer to see a hotter water temperature (130 to 140 degrees) in the tub at the fill cycle(before the wash motor starts).
Water hardness also effects the breakdown and effectiveness of the detergent. Water hardness grains can be gotten from your water supply company, or you can purchase a water hardness test kit from AppliancePartspro.com or a local hardware or plumbing supply company.
There are a couple of more things to check as a last resort, as they do not occur often :
On your particular unit check the spray arm top cover seal rings for possible drag on the cover causing the spray arm to drag or bind, not allowing the arms to move / rotate properly.

Also check the detergent cup for proper and full open position in the detergent cup increment (approximately 2 minutes ) into the main wash cycle. There could be a delay in the opening process if you have a weak bi metal release or if the motor is not reaching proper torque and amperage due to low water level or drag on the spray arm assembly.
Xtalker  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2010 3:04:12 AM(UTC)
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Detergent dispenser and spray arms seem fine, rinse agent resovoir is full. Not sure what else to check here. The wife's pushing for a whole new unit, so being unable to resolve this drives me nuts!

Its interesting that this seems like a common problem from online postings but you never really find a common resolution.

Any other hints here appreciated!

Thanks,
Bob in Raleigh
Joe / APP Team  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2010 6:18:05 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Xtalker Go to Quoted Post
Detergent dispenser and spray arms seem fine, rinse agent resovoir is full. Not sure what else to check here. The wife's pushing for a whole new unit, so being unable to resolve this drives me nuts!

Its interesting that this seems like a common problem from online postings but you never really find a common resolution.

Any other hints here appreciated!

Thanks,
Bob in Raleigh


Bob
I've coverred everything mechanical in the unit. I am assuming , when you cleaned the arms and filters and screens you also checked the impeller under the dome housing for possible dammaged or clogged fins.
That is the only component I can think of that we have not coverred in our discussion.

Yes this is a very common problem and in most cases is due to an outside source (water temp, water hardness,etc.).

You may want to descale the tub and pump assembly by using Glisten, Lime Away or CLR (following the instructions) instead of dismantling the pump assembly again, and see if that improves the performance of the unit.

I cant think of anything else we have not coverred in our discussion.
Xtalker  
#7 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2010 11:16:31 AM(UTC)
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Xtalker

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Thanks for your help Joe! I was thinking that I have nott actually seen the impeller on this machine, perhaps I've just not taken it apart far ernough.

Do you know if there is anything un-obvious about getting to the impeller here?

Thanks again!
Bob
Joe / APP Team  
#8 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2010 11:55:10 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Xtalker Go to Quoted Post
Thanks for your help Joe! I was thinking that I have nott actually seen the impeller on this machine, perhaps I've just not taken it apart far ernough.

Do you know if there is anything un-obvious about getting to the impeller here?

Thanks again!
Bob


No there's not anything too un-obvious about the impeller location / access.

Once you've removed the spray arm,shield and pump cover,you will find the filter and spray arm and backflush arm support assembly. in the center of the assembly you should find a thumb screw, once you've loosened and removed the screw you will be able to lift and remove the assembly as a unit(don't loose the plastic bearing under the screw) you are now at the pressure dome. remove the 4 screws mounting the dome to the pump body and lift up and remove the dome, the wash impeller is now visible.
As I mentioned before check for clogged ,damaged,missing vanes on the impeller. also check the dome interior for clogs around the openings in the dome. (This is a single piece unit it should not be in 2 pieces)Then Clean and replace parts as you see fit at that point.
I've attached a picture of the pressure dome for reference.

Part number: AP4364885
Gene  
#9 Posted : Tuesday, July 20, 2010 1:46:57 PM(UTC)
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Hi Bob,

Just to add my 2 cents...

Remove the lower spray arm and the filter assembly (#4 on the diagram) as instructed by Joe. I bet the pump filter and the rinse arm (#6 & #7) all blocked with a hard water deposits. Clean them using a white vinegar and a soft metal brush and you'll be your wife hero. :)

Gene.
Xtalker  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, July 21, 2010 3:52:17 AM(UTC)
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Last night I got it all apart and aside from a few broken glass bits I could find nothing at all wrong in the impeller/pump assembly. It was all suprsinglyly clean (probably due to the massive amounts of vinegar we've dumped into it lately!) Of course I can't rule out the serendipity factor here (as in perhaps I fixed something without knowing it!)

Thanks again for all help, perhaps it really is "rocket surgery"!

Bob
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